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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:28 pm 
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Posts: 23
Location: Campbell River, B.C.
Hi, I just received a new Ruger Explorer I bought for my daughter and it won't cock. Break barrel opens, but no click.

Is this something that I can fix on my own or should it be sent back?

New to airguns, but am somewhat handy, so if you guys think it's something I could troubleshoot and fix, not opposed to that route.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:50 pm 
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Posts: 1754
Location: mb
New as in "Brand New outta the box" or "new to you"?

If it were brand new outta the box, I'd send it back for replacement. . . .

If it's new to you, then it's likely a trigger/sear related issue. I've never had your particular gun apart, but being a youth model gun, you won't need a spring compressor to strip it down.

Something's likely preventing the sear from engaging. . . . I'd be a wee bit leery of it, in light of it's intended user(youth).
You don't want your daughter suffering a bad experience with this type of device. . . .

Please insist on proper loading procedure. Always hold the barrel when loading. Always!

Good Luck!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:10 pm 
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Location: Campbell River, B.C.
vAgRaNt wrote:
New as in "Brand New outta the box" or "new to you"?

If it were brand new outta the box, I'd send it back for replacement. . . .

If it's new to you, then it's likely a trigger/sear related issue. I've never had your particular gun apart, but being a youth model gun, you won't need a spring compressor to strip it down.

Something's likely preventing the sear from engaging. . . . I'd be a wee bit leery of it, in light of it's intended user(youth).
You don't want your daughter suffering a bad experience with this type of device. . . .

Please insist on proper loading procedure. Always hold the barrel when loading. Always!

Good Luck!


Brand new in box.

I decided to open 'er up and take a look. Removed the stock (3 screws), and it cocked first attempt without the stock. I placed the stock back on and lightly snuggled up the screws. Shot it and re-cocked and all was fine.

It worked well for several rounds and then I went back to snug the 3 screws down firmly. I noted the screw near the trigger guard had backed off a bit, which didn't really surprise me, but I snugged it up nice and tight and... was again, unable to cock it. Backed the trigger screw off a bit and was able to cock again. So not sure what the issue is, but the workaround is a loosely snugged screw. Anything that might be not allowing the fully snugged screw?

Should I loctite the screw as is?

Also, can you elaborate on what to specifically watch out for in regards to the "You don't want your daughter suffering a bad experience with this type of device. . . ." comment and explain the need to always hold the barrel? This is new info for me and being a safety nut, I'll gladly enforce it, but would like to understand the reason behind it.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:42 pm 
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From the sounds of it, the stock is not inletted correctly. It could be something near the front which is preventing the barrel from completing the cocking arc \ stroke, or at the rear.

I do not have your rifle either, but in general, the barrel has a cocking lever \ arm underneath with a shoe that rides in a groove in the bottom of the tube. That arm slides the piston back far enough for a little slot in the piston to engage trigger assy., thus cocking the rifle.

If you have taken it apart, then you can watch this happen in real time if you cock it.

Something is preventing this engagement.

The safety warning was a general one, but especially important in your case since something is dodgy with the rifle. If the rifle is not cocked and the barrel slams upwards it can severely damage a finger, possibly breaking it, and 90% of the time the barrel will bend as well.

Even on a perfectly functioning rifle, it is a mechanical device, designed and built by humans, thus has the potential to fail. The little youth rifles have enough force that I wouldn't want MY finger pinched in there....Some other types of rifles, like my HWxx's under levers are not break barrel, but have a lever underneath the fixed barrel you use to cock the rifle. They have a loading gate on top that you put your fingers in to load a pellet. Personally, I am convinced that if that ever slammed shut on me, it would take the finger clean off at the first or second joint.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:07 am 
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Location: mb
shinyrhinostudio wrote:
Also, can you elaborate on what to specifically watch out for in regards to the "You don't want your daughter suffering a bad experience with this type of device. . . ." comment and explain the need to always hold the barrel? This is new info for me and being a safety nut, I'll gladly enforce it, but would like to understand the reason behind it.


I can't help you with the specifics you describe on your daughters gun, but I'm certain someone more familiar with the platform will be along shortly to advise a positive and permanent repair. It's part of the beauty of this forum; someone has run into your problem before, and has figured a way to properly sort it. . .

Not to be alarmist, just to review safe loading/handling procedures. It's one of those things that you can do incorrectly a thousand times with no consequence. . . . . .

On a break barrel, you must always manually hold the barrel in the open position while loading the pellet. There are mechanisms that hold the barrel in the open position, but they should only be used as a back-up to a firm grip on both barrel and stock. As you can well imagine, the barrel snapping back into position with fingers in the way, isn't going to end well for child or adult fingers. . . .

I would not allow my child access to that particular gun until it is fully sorted. If it can't be cocked reliably, it can't be counted on to stay cocked either. Unintended perforations might be the least bad thing that could happen.

Be Safe, Have Fun! An good on ya' for involving your daughter in the shooting sports!

After the initial sting of it wears off, you'll be a very proud father when she eventually out shoots you! :lol:

Please sort that gun out first. I don't believe locktiting the screw at partial seat is a suitable solution, especially for a youth gun. . .IMHO. YMMV.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:03 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Campbell River, B.C.
Thanks for the info. It hadn't crossed my mind that if the gun accidentally un-cocked itself, it would send the barrel into motion. Makes perfect sense now. I've been firing my Air Hawk, ~1500 pellets through it now, and am glad that I have been without incident. I will be more careful about my loading process and make sure I teach my daughter the correct way.

As for her rifle, I disassembled it again and began troubleshooting. It cocks no problem with the stock off. With the stock on, it cocks as long as the bolt is backed off about 1/2 - 3/4 of a turn from fully snugged tightly. It's not loose, by any means, just not fully tight.

So once I investigated that nothing was preventing the mechanism from it's full travel while in the stock, I decided to see what would happen if I inserted the trigger bolt while the stock was off. At a certain point, the bolt is inserted deep enough in the action that it is blocking the full travel of the cocking mechanism. It just stops dead in it's tracks. So I began backing off the bolt with the stock off and there's definitely a point where the inserted bolt must just clear the inner workings and then it cocks as it should.

I noticed that the two bolts up front by the pivot both had washers and the trigger bolt doesn't. Maybe it was forgotten on the trigger bolt as the thickness of the washer would likely make the difference of that extra 1/2 - 3/4 turns that inhibits cocking. Who knows...

I decided to sand the bolt down to knock off a mm from the tip and now I can fully tighten the bolt and cocks every time.

I'll admit that it's still a bit disconcerting not knowing what it was actually getting hung up on and if it makes perfect sense as to why it was happening. So I I'll likely send Umarex an email to get some insight into if the bolt was just a mm too long and it was catching on an expected moving part or if it's concerning and worth further investigation to ensure it's not going to fail eventually.

I am not a fan of getting new things and having problems straight outta the box. Happens to me far too often, lol.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:20 am 
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Location: Bradford
Interesting. i would have bet the stock mold had some swarf or something on it.

Now, a LOT of air rifles have a boss tack welded on the tube to accept the rear stock screw..most of them in fact. The boss is drilled and tapped to accept that screw and is usually a blind hole. So....does your rifle have this?

I can only think of two things...somehow the rear stock screw is threading IN to the rear of the tube and blocking the rifle from cocking, OR the boss tack welded on the tube has a thru hole and the stock screw is deforming the tube enough that the piston cannot slide in the deformed tube any further.

In any case, glad you figured it out :)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:03 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Campbell River, B.C.
ITGUY wrote:
Interesting. i would have bet the stock mold had some swarf or something on it.

Now, a LOT of air rifles have a boss tack welded on the tube to accept the rear stock screw..most of them in fact. The boss is drilled and tapped to accept that screw and is usually a blind hole. So....does your rifle have this?

I can only think of two things...somehow the rear stock screw is threading IN to the rear of the tube and blocking the rifle from cocking, OR the boss tack welded on the tube has a thru hole and the stock screw is deforming the tube enough that the piston cannot slide in the deformed tube any further.

In any case, glad you figured it out :)
.

By boss tack, I'm assuming you mean something like a weld nut. A pronounced nub tacked in place for the bolt to secure to.

I'd have to check, but if memory serves me, there was a trigger mechanism housing/shroud that the bolt was passing through and how it was being secured was beneath that housing. So hard to say what's under there.

The bolt is around 1.25" and without the stock on, the bolt could be inserted and tightened its full length inside the tube, so it definitely fills almost the entire diameter of the spring tube. Doing so, all the way in, inhibits cocking until the bolt is backed out to a certain point and the moving parts are then free to do their thing. With that trigger shroud in play, there's no way to see what lies beneath, and I figured taking it apart further may be counter productive. ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1190
Location: Eastern Townships
I do have a Ruger Explorer rifle, and though I never had problems to cock it, in the picture you can clearly see there are some rubbing marks on the trigger bolt's end. I strongly believe you did the right thing by shortening the bolt a bit. Of course you'll want to ''test'' it for a couple hundreds pellets before handing it to your daughter, but I believe you solved the problem. JMHO

P.S. : There was no washer on my bolt either


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:03 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Campbell River, B.C.
airmec wrote:
I do have a Ruger Explorer rifle, and though I never had problems to cock it, in the picture you can clearly see there are some rubbing marks on the trigger bolt's end. I strongly believe you did the right thing by shortening the bolt a bit. Of course you'll want to ''test'' it for a couple hundreds pellets before handing it to your daughter, but I believe you solved the problem. JMHO

P.S. : There was no washer on my bolt either


This is good news! Thanks for taking the time to respond as it definitely eases my mind. I've ran 100 pellets through it so far and haven't had any issues, but will fire another 100 or so as you recommend before letting her use it again.

Question I have for you now that I know you have the same rifle.

The trigger... sometimes it moves freely and hits a subtle "wall" before firing, while other times it creaks and is less smooth, (jumps a bit), until it sudden fires, which can catch me off guard. Is yours similar? Can this be dealt with to have it smooth always, or likely something that may resolve itself during break-in?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:31 pm 
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Location: Eastern Townships
shinyrhinostudio wrote:
airmec wrote:
I do have a Ruger Explorer rifle, and though I never had problems to cock it, in the picture you can clearly see there are some rubbing marks on the trigger bolt's end. I strongly believe you did the right thing by shortening the bolt a bit. Of course you'll want to ''test'' it for a couple hundreds pellets before handing it to your daughter, but I believe you solved the problem. JMHO

P.S. : There was no washer on my bolt either


This is good news! Thanks for taking the time to respond as it definitely eases my mind. I've ran 100 pellets through it so far and haven't had any issues, but will fire another 100 or so as you recommend before letting her use it again.

Question I have for you now that I know you have the same rifle.

The trigger... sometimes it moves freely and hits a subtle "wall" before firing, while other times it creaks and is less smooth, (jumps a bit), until it sudden fires, which can catch me off guard. Is yours similar? Can this be dealt with to have it smooth always, or likely something that may resolve itself during break-in?


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It was, and improved after 3-400 pellets. :) . The sear is made from three side-by-side stamped steel plates, and may not be the smoothest around! I've found a tuning tutorial for it on the Yellow forum, very well explained and illustrated :

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/th ... b+Tutorial

Also, here's a little YT video illustrating well how to cock a break barrel air rifle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HDUKbZH0I8

That nice little rifle responds very well to tuning, if you wish to put a little time in it, I personally think it's well worth it. :wink:

Greetings!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:03 pm
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Location: Campbell River, B.C.
airmec wrote:
shinyrhinostudio wrote:
airmec wrote:
I do have a Ruger Explorer rifle, and though I never had problems to cock it, in the picture you can clearly see there are some rubbing marks on the trigger bolt's end. I strongly believe you did the right thing by shortening the bolt a bit. Of course you'll want to ''test'' it for a couple hundreds pellets before handing it to your daughter, but I believe you solved the problem. JMHO

P.S. : There was no washer on my bolt either


This is good news! Thanks for taking the time to respond as it definitely eases my mind. I've ran 100 pellets through it so far and haven't had any issues, but will fire another 100 or so as you recommend before letting her use it again.

Question I have for you now that I know you have the same rifle.

The trigger... sometimes it moves freely and hits a subtle "wall" before firing, while other times it creaks and is less smooth, (jumps a bit), until it sudden fires, which can catch me off guard. Is yours similar? Can this be dealt with to have it smooth always, or likely something that may resolve itself during break-in?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It was, and improved after 3-400 pellets. :) . The sear is made from three side-by-side stamped steel plates, and may not be the smoothest around! I've found a tuning tutorial for it on the Yellow forum, very well explained and illustrated :

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/th ... b+Tutorial

Also, here's a little YT video illustrating well how to cock a break barrel air rifle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HDUKbZH0I8

That nice little rifle responds very well to tuning, if you wish to put a little time in it, I personally think it's well worth it. :wink:

Greetings!


Will watch the vids. Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:03 pm
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Location: Campbell River, B.C.
Heard back from Umarex. Sounds like there was supposed to be a washer for the trigger bolt. That likely would have made the difference.

The important bit in their response to me...

"Was there a washer on that stock screw? This may have been the issue. Or the bolt was too long or it was installed too tightly."

Anyway, I'm happy with that and will allow my daughter to resume using it with proper safety precautions.

Thanks for your help.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:13 pm 
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Location: Eastern Townships
You're welcome :) . Wish you a safe and happy shooting time with your daughter!


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