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 Post subject: Need an advise about PCP
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:53 pm 
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Hi experienced shooters,

I didn't want to go into scuba tanks, pumps, refills at first and had been looking for match-grade CO2 air pistol. Didn't find much in the Canada - not a much choice of them here (((

Recently I have started to think - may be it is time to gather more info on PCP. If there are experienced shooters in PCP, can you please give me some idea what would I need for a start? I assume:

1. Used Scuba tank
2. Some kind of adapter from tank to my possible handgun
3. Diver shop, friendly enough, to fill Scuba tank for me without special license

Anything else I am missing? What about the prices on all of that? Where would I look for tank? Kijiji? What would I need to look for when buying?

I live in Mississauga, ON - so, advise on well known dive shops (airgun friendly) would be nice too.
Thanks in advance!

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Vostok Margolin
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:11 am 
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For 10M CO2 air pistols. If you wanted to buy new, the only two I know of are the TAU7 and Alpha Proj... other than that, you need to look for a used Walther/Steyr/FWB... and they are not all that common.

Personally, I still use a pump for my PCP. To fill from 100bar to 200bar, is 50-60 pumps. I usually get +/- 120 shots per fill.
Just don't fill the cylinder before shooting a match...

For the tanks, I'd check with your local dive shop.
- Tanks need to be tested every few years to be legal, to be filled. There are different rules for steel/alu/carbon tank.
- It might be easier to come to an agreement to fill your tank without you having a diver's certification, if the shop owner knows you...


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:11 am 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec
Welcome to the board!

For filling a PCP (pistol or rifle) pretty much forget about hand pumps. They take a LONG time to fill a cylinder.

A used scuba tank with DIN valve should cost anywhere from about $175 to $275, depending on the condition and size. There is NO LICENSE required to fill a scuba tank! I have two used 80 cu ft tanks and one 120 cu ft. (I keep one at home, one at the office and the larger tank I dedicate to filling the cylinder on my rifle.

Depending on which gun you get, you may not need any additional adapter. And for a pistol it's pretty much certain you won't need any adapter other than what comes with the pistol. But you would need to make sure your scuba tank has a DIN valve. (200 bar or 300 bar.) When you buy a used tank from a shop (as I did with mine) they should also do a hydro test on it, and with a fresh test, the tank will be good for at least 5 years (it might be 10, I don't remember). Without a fresh hydro test I wouldn't buy a used tank.

I fill my pistol to 200 bar (which is the max for my pistol) and from the 80 cu ft tanks, I get almost 40 cylinder fills before it stops being able to give me 200 bar. That doesn't mean the scuba tank needs to be filled right away, because you can still keep filling the pistol even if you don't get a full 200 bar. But once it starts dropping I usually just get the tank filled.

Ask around to find a good shop which is able to fill to the max pressure. The shop I deal with fills my tanks to 3650 psi and they always make an effort to make sure it's full. (More so than when filling a tank for actual scuba diving.)

For filling a rifle's cylinder, you MAY need an additional adapter, depending on the make/model of the rifle. With my CZ200T I didn't need anything more than what came with it. But with my Air Arms S400 MPR FT rifle, I had to buy a hose adapter with Foster quick disconnect. That cost me about $130. I attach the little AA adapter to the Foster quick disconnect and I'm good to go.

Good luck!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:53 am 
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Mtl_Biker wrote:
Welcome to the board!

....

Good luck!


Thanks a lot for such detailed answer Mtl_Biker!
That is what I was looking for. So, actually now I need to find and reach out dive shops in the Mississauga area!

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Vostok Margolin
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:59 am 
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sillymike wrote:
For 10M CO2 air pistols. If you wanted to buy new, the only two I know of are the TAU7 and Alpha Proj... other than that, you need to look for a used Walther/Steyr/FWB... and they are not all that common.



Yes, you are 100% right (((
I was not able to find any CO2 Alpha Proj and my request for the old LP-1 had ZERO replies on any boards across Canada I posted it to.

So, I found good dealer with TAU7 but one they send to me had bad valve sealing and CO2 was escaping so fast you can shoot only 5pellet MAX until it is out (((
I googled it a little bit more and it looks like TAU7 quite often have this issue. Now I think may be it is wise to ask for refund and look into the second hand PCP.
There is much more choice in the PCP world than CO2...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:31 am 
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My first 10M was a TAU7... they're usually pretty simple/reliable. I've blown a few seals, but that's because I wasn't careful... but they were cheap enough, easy enough to change.

Best way to find a "used" 10M pistol would be at a 10M competition. Seems like many shooters keep their older gun as "backup", and will not think of selling them unless you actually talk to them.

You could also try some of the dealer, like Jocelyn @ www.targets.ca
He might get some guns in trade, or know of someone thinking about upgrading.

Last but not least, contact the provincial shooting organizations. Many of them have "classifieds" for their members, where you could post a WTB add.

Last but not least: Canadian Access to Firearms https://canadianguns.com


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:37 am 
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sillymike wrote:
My first 10M was a TAU7... they're usually pretty simple/reliable. I've blown a few seals, but that's because I wasn't careful... but they were cheap enough, easy enough to change.

Best way to find a "used" 10M pistol would be at a 10M competition. Seems like many shooters keep their older gun as "backup", and will not think of selling them unless you actually talk to them.

You could also try some of the dealer, like Jocelyn @ http://www.targets.ca
He might get some guns in trade, or know of someone thinking about upgrading.

Last but not least, contact the provincial shooting organizations. Many of them have "classifieds" for their members, where you could post a WTB add.

Last but not least: Canadian Access to Firearms https://canadianguns.com


Oh, Thanks! Didn't think about the competition and provincial shooting organization options! Thanks for the hints.

Btw, "but they were cheap enough, easy enough to change" - that is right, can you point to some shop where I can find them? I googled a lot - didn't find anything (((
Thanks in advance!

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Vostok Margolin
Hammerli 208 International


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:12 am 
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back then, I just measured the ones I needed... and search ebay for Viton o-rings in that size. In the late 90s, I must have got 100 o-rings for $5.

Here's a good reference for the TAU-7. It's a PDF o-ring reference file. The guy is involved with the MIT shooting club and will often post on TargetTalk
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiIuNqV0q3QAhXF2SYKHcTSCDcQFggqMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.luchtbuks.net%2Findex.php%3Fs%3Ddcb509cfa973e512854cd002afa91c23%26app%3Dcore%26module%3Dattach%26section%3Dattach%26attach_rel_module%3Dpost%26attach_id%3D168069&usg=AFQjCNFdTSa1cire_OyMszQiE3kJ08LLDQ&sig2=kJs-iWIJVXfMPYA4y9adtw&bvm=bv.138493631,bs.1,d.cGw

On a side note, saw the Margolin mentioned in your signature... If you ever find yourself in need of springs/firing pin and the like, let me know.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:32 am 
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sillymike wrote:

On a side note, saw the Margolin mentioned in your signature... If you ever find yourself in need of springs/firing pin and the like, let me know.



Thanks for the info - I will check it.
And yeah, Margolin is my "work machine". It has some personal/historic value for me and also I believe it is awesome (almost perfect) gun for learners/noobies like I am.

Thanks for the offer - I will keep it in mind. But honestly I still have strong connection to Russia and some shooting clubs there, so may be when I need one they can send me spare parts )))

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:37 pm 
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It's probably easier to deal with a Russian company if 1) you're in Russia and 2) can speak write Russian...

One of my "long-term-project" is to get some choke tubes from a Rys-K... lets just say that the friendly folks at KBP/TsKIB COO don't do emails and inquiries sent through old fashion letters have gotten me flyers, pamphlets, patch... but not the information I was looking for :bear:

Ho well.

The MCM is an interesting gun with an interesting design.
When I hear people questioning some of the ISSF pistol rules... I like to point them toward the Margolin and blame the Russians
(for thinking outside the box)

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