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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 6845
Location: Rocky Mtn Hse Alberta
Coder, there are no dumb questions! Answers??......

Foam would quickly fall apart try the plastic, well try any and everything you will become adept at teardown
Good fitting Delrin sleeve on the guide rod and good greases make a big difference.
Have fun with the adventure

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
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Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
coder wrote:
I wonder if double sided foam would work? reinforced with industrial type adhesive? Perhaps a stupid question...or thought?

I say this because it is only really for sound dampening of the coil, but as you said, it may just chew it up?


You'll have matter like this. The can that got chewed up.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:24 pm
Posts: 666
Location: Dowling ,ontario
+1 for the vinegar bottle . Some of the plastic clam shell packaging is a tad thicker than pop bottles . I've tuned and given three of these rifles to friends now . They love them and I love being the enabler . You may want to look into some heavy tar for the spring if it still twangs . I got a lube kit from Airrifleheadquarters in the stated that includes moly paste,clear tar and heavy tar. There's enough in the kit to last a lifetime unless you tune air rifles for a living.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
I have how-to info on the sleeve thing, complete with pix if you want it. I can post if you like but it's already here somewhere. Altogether I have lots of other info which is way too much to post, so if you want it all; chevota at hotmail and I'll send it.
Leadslinger: you can do two layers of sody pop bottle sleeves too :) Just the put the seams ~180 out, and to be sure they don't rotate you can add a drop of glue near the tail end. I think the one layer pretty much fixes the noise problem even tho the spring is still kinda loose, but as long as it doesn't bind up in there I'd say two layers can only help. The ID of pistons vary, as do springs and bottles so all I can say is two layers may be perfect but it can be too tight in some guns. Sanding the ID of the piston smooth and OD of the spring helps with that and reduces friction, so something for people to consider.
There's also that silicone plug dealie if anyone is interested, which I also posted here somewhere. Not sure if it helps much if you have the sleeve, but w/o the sleeve it certainly helps. Can't hurt and it's something to tinker with if curious.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:10 am
Posts: 11
Thanks Chevota and others....
Extremely valuable information that I'm definitely going to look into...

This weekend(in between chores) I stripped the Phantom down, cleaned all the old lubricant out, polished with 220 then to 340 grit. I did the Chamber, Piston (ID + OD), tophat, spring seat and de-burr everything in the stroke action path...all good.

Staying away from petroleum based lubricants I re-lubed with LUCAS Air Tool Lubricant. Designed for high compression, inert and Seal friendly.
A couple of drops only, enough to coat everywhere....

I did a couple of test fires with Crosman 14gr and it was quieter, smoother and all around much Better!! (Wish I had more time, for sure after Christmas!)

I will be ordering the upgrade spring, at that point I will probably look into making it quieter. My guess is the new spring will have a different displacement than the
underpowered Canadian version with 33 coils....so no point in trying to "sleeve" the piston without the new spring in hand before installation..

tx everyone

coder


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:59 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Dryden,Ontario
Chevota wrote:
I have how-to info on the sleeve thing, complete with pix if you want it. I can post if you like but it's already here somewhere. Altogether I have lots of other info which is way too much to post, so if you want it all; chevota at hotmail and I'll send it.
Leadslinger: you can do two layers of sody pop bottle sleeves too :) Just the put the seams ~180 out, and to be sure they don't rotate you can add a drop of glue near the tail end. I think the one layer pretty much fixes the noise problem even tho the spring is still kinda loose, but as long as it doesn't bind up in there I'd say two layers can only help. The ID of pistons vary, as do springs and bottles so all I can say is two layers may be perfect but it can be too tight in some guns. Sanding the ID of the piston smooth and OD of the spring helps with that and reduces friction, so something for people to consider.
There's also that silicone plug dealie if anyone is interested, which I also posted here somewhere. Not sure if it helps much if you have the sleeve, but w/o the sleeve it certainly helps. Can't hurt and it's something to tinker with if curious.

I would email Chevota for his tuning guide.There is more info in it than I ever thought i needed to know about air rifles.well written and easy to understand.I have read it through a few times now and feel very confident in my abilities to do this to my gun.I am new to this too.I havent used an air rifle in 30 plus years but a squirrel problem got me back in to it.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:10 am
Posts: 11
Chevota- Thank you very much for The best air rifle tuning guide I have yet to see!!! It is incredibly detailed and full of Noob valuable information as well as tips and advice for advanced users/beginners..

All i can say is Wow!! Awesome job my friend!

After reading it today, I will be redoing some tunings that I completely missed as well as some new ones.

I shall keep you posted...
tx
Coder


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
You are welcome, glad it was helpful :)
Before and after info is good to know too, for me and others interested in tuning. So if you can please post all your thoughts about each mod and/or the gun as a whole, like by how much that sleeve quieted it down.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:35 pm
Posts: 295
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
I just wanted to add that I bet the full power phantom for the higher cost was the .22 full power NP version.
the extra cost is actually justified when you price out the stuff to convert it from spring to NP.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
I firmly believe the full power was cheaper to mfg, so imo they're just taking advantage of people.
Which is the better deal I guess depends on how you go about it. I'm working on the possibility of a much cheaper nitro for some of these swaps, if it works out then a new nitro would be ~$16CA. All depends on how they did they reduced it to 500fps, for example many already have the right spring and only need the piston cut, which is $0, just a little work.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:46 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:10 am
Posts: 11
Digitalfx33- you may be right? All I noticed different on the $260 + tax model was a 4x Scope + the 900 fps rating? Either way, It was way more than I was intending/wanting to spend(especially just before Christmas); . It may be nitro piston(with scope), but is it really worth almost double the cost$ ?

But to update my Phantom...I have replaced the main spring and must say, it was a lot harder to install than the original 33 coil(thinner and smaller?)
Unfortunately, at this time, I don't have the most ideal shooting areas to test(garage 15' max) but wow what a difference...

Thanks to Chevota and many others on this forum.....tuning and spring upgrade was what made the differences!!!

The twang I was getting before is virtually gone? At least with my limited test shots at close range. There is no noticeable increase in recoil, but definitely a little harder to cock.
Power is definitely better, one can tell that this is the spring the Phantom .22 was designed for...

I also purchased the CT 4x Crosman scope $50 for it, but definitely waiting for nicer weather outside to set it up.....c'mon springtime!!!
tc guys


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:45 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Muskoka
Sharing some data from today on my Phantom 22 495:

Short piston, just under 6" IIRC,

33 coils of 0.1" wire

Approx 10 lbs cocking effort

I sleeved and "buttoned" it, no lube, shoots about 425 fps with 14.4gn but seems to be climbing (last 5 shots were closer to 450)

I think it is a good gun to learn some tuning.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:33 pm
Posts: 240
Location: Yukon
Anatine Duo wrote:
Sharing some data from today on my Phantom 22 495:

Short piston, just under 6" IIRC,

33 coils of 0.1" wire

Approx 10 lbs cocking effort

I sleeved and "buttoned" it, no lube, shoots about 425 fps with 14.4gn but seems to be climbing (last 5 shots were closer to 450)

I think it is a good gun to learn some tuning.



So this suggests your short piston has a relief hole? I believe the 34 coil was the weakest spring with the 33 being the mid power.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:45 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Muskoka
Definitely no hole. I could have overlooked a coil...

It's ridiculously easy to cock with this spring.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:26 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 480
Location: Thunder Bay
I bought one of those $75 phantoms from wally world. Mine came with the standard (short) piston, no bleed hole, and a skinny spring. I went with a medium power spring, shrink tubed guide and a piston liner. Cphp shoot at 650 fps for 13fpe. Mouse fart quiet and only 23lbs cocking force.
I used the plastic from a tub of yogurt for the piston liner. I lubed with old school moly paste.
I found velocity went up a little with the piston liner (10fps or so). That plastic, when coated with moly paste, is a lot more slippery than the inside of the steel piston.
Notice that the barrel on the detuned phantom is shorter than the full power model. The longer barrels are solely to provide more leverage for cocking. When I installed the full power spring, velocities were around 710 fps with a cocking force of 40lbs+ due to the shorter barrel. Shot cycle was harsh.
With the softer spring, cocking force was cut in half, hold sensitivity has almost disappeared, it's not pellet picky anymore, and I only lost 60 fps. The gun will stay under 3/4" at 20 meters with just about any pellet I stick in it. Some of the new full power gas ram guns have trouble breaking 700 fps.
All my other guns are .177. I only bought the phantom to have a .22. It's fast becoming a favourite.

Edit: the medium power spring is crosman part# B19-00-4B. The spring is .118 wire and 33 coils as compared to the full power spring with .122 wire and 36 coils. Bought mine from Gravel Agency for about $13CDN.

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