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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Location: Toronto
For years, I used 10 meter targets @ 17 feet . But recently switched to 5 meter (16.4 inch ) targets.
The scoring rings are much closer so I am getting more 6s and 7s compared to the mostly 8s, 9s and 10s with the wider 10 meter rings.
But what I don't understand is why my measured group size is smaller/tighter on the 5 meter target regardless of the actual scoring. For me, the better group size is more pleasing than the overall scores.

So why am I shooting better on a smaller target at the same distance with pellet and bb guns??
Any scientific explanations someone offer?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:44 pm 
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Image

Chances are your wandering/movement is more obvious on the smaller target, therefore you concentrate more on the smaller target... and


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:50 pm 
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sillymike wrote:
Image

Chances are your wandering/movement is more obvious on the smaller target, therefore you concentrate more on the smaller target... and


So, with the 10 meter target ,while my laser is fixed on the bulls-eye ( ten ring), my eyes are floating around the larger black area which causes more hand/eye movement?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:32 pm 
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As long as you can see it with the sights you are using, the smaller the actual aiming spot, the smaller the groups you will shoot.

The easiest way to "see" this, is to post a 100yard target at 50yards and shoot it with a rifle having open sights. Then post a 4" black bull at the same range- a 3" with 1" white centre will usually work even better, IF you can see it, and shoot again. The smaller target will have the tighter group. The smaller target makes you hold tighter with higher concentration exerted - ie": aim small, miss small just like the other guys posted.

The same phenomenon can be seen when using a high powered scope. Use a standard 100 yard target with 1" white circle, then use a standard BR target and aim at the concentric circle's centre-circle below (or above) the 1 1/4" black square.

I use these for setting up my zeros for my CF and RF rat rifles. I aim at the centre circle and adjust the sights so the group clusters inside the 1 1/4" black square, which is 1.8" above the aiming circle. This works nicely for scopes 16X and higher.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Thanks for these replies. After 10 years of target shooting and continuous self-education, it is only since I switched to 5 meter targets for 5 meter shooting that these new revelations are clear to me.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Have been using 5 meter targets for that distance since last posts. 'aim small-miss small' seems to be proven out.

What I don't understand is that with the 10 meter targets, I always have a small white dot in the ten ring for aiming .
The same dot on the 5 meter gives smaller groups.
so I assume that your eyes ( and brain) takes in the whole landscape though which causes your POI to drift.
I should have brought this up years ago.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:37 pm 
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Yep, aim for a Grouse's eye, you have a better success rate than just aiming for his head.... :wink:

Bob

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:01 pm 
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rsterne wrote:
Yep, aim for a Grouse's eye, you have a better success rate than just aiming for his head.... :wink:

Bob


Well the white dot was the 'eye' which I always aimed at but the 10 shots on target were spread over 2 1/2 inches and 1 to
11/2 ich on the 5 meter
Anyway, I won't overthink this phenomenon.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:06 pm 
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This sort of thing REALLY comes to light (understanding) when shooting instinctively with a bow. Try to hit that buffalo at 30yards and you might. Try to hit the tiny spot in the middle of the 5 ring and you'll likely get a 3 or 5, not a 1 or a miss.
When shooting "Unlimited" (w/magnifying aperture sight) I used to aim at the tiny cross in the middle of the X ring. That tiny cross was hit more times than not. If simply trying for 10's, you'll get the odd 9 and lose every match. X's win that discipline.

It is all about disciplining your eyes to concentrate. If able to do this, not just aiming at that white spot, but if that white spot is all you see clearly, That white spot is your entire focus, your group size will diminish.
Doing this for a while string, say 10 shots, is tiring. If it isn't you aren't concentrating hard enough - imho. Same goes for shooting groups with a powder burner. Total concentration on sights and target & most importantly - following through after the shot before moving, instead of merely shooting at the target, shot after shot will improve scores and group size.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:31 pm 
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I use a small dot laser shooting indoors only which enables both eyes to be open. Perhaps I will put some covers on my glasses
with an aperture cut out to focus on the white dot only and eliminate the whole field of view. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:30 pm 
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ten-ring wrote:
I use a small dot laser shooting indoors only which enables both eyes to be open. Perhaps I will put some covers on my glasses
with an aperture cut out to focus on the white dot only and eliminate the whole field of view. Thanks.



The covers on my glasses with a small hole cut out did not help.
Since I shoot indoors with a small lamp lighting the target, I have covered much of the lamp lens allowing for a small circle of
light to focus on the target center and leave the outer rings more obscure and less in my field of vision. Seems to be an improvement.


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