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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
Note how Tony and Si hold this HW98 rifle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxgXnkr6hYY

Last time out at the indoor range, shooting at 20 yards, I held both my 97 and 98 this way. Accurate was very consistent and actually better than the artillery hold. Both these rifles have shown to prefer holds from 2" in front of the TG, out to 1/2 way down the forend. Now, I hold them the same as Tony and Si.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1kDsuG9uUc

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:04 pm 
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mind you Dale that's practically a rested shot...his had is placed there to just absorb the bit of recoil...the artillery hold works best when there is no stand involved

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:17 am 
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Ace wrote:
mind you Dale (Daryl) that's practically a rested shot...his had is placed there to just absorb the bit of recoil...the artillery hold works best when there is no stand involved


Yes - of course it is a rested shot - he is using a rest, holding the forend at the front end and resting the back of his hand on it. Tony used the same method of holding the rifle. They did not rest the rifle in front of the trigger guard, aka "artillery hold".

When testing ammo, one must use a rest of some sort to make the tests worth while. We have been told that an artillery hold is necessary to obtain accuracy from a springer. Seems not so for Sy and Tony nor Davey for that matter. In none of their videos have I seen them use the so-called "Artillery Hold". Perhaps it is only less expensive rifles require this type of hold - for "consistency", it is claimed? One must, of course, hold the rifle in the manner that allows it to shoot it's and your best.

As far as offhand or standing shooting goes, one needs to hold the rifle for it's best comfort and accuracy. I cannot use the Olympic style hold, which some might call an artillery hold, due to back pain in that position. I can, however hold the rifle as I do any of my other rifles, modern and muzzleloading. My air guns, both HW's shoot just fine, held that way.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:38 pm 
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what I meant by rested was that its not fully rested I consider a fully rested position as in siting at a table were your elbow is also rested...obviously you can clearly see in the video it was semi rested...I don't disagree Dale, you should always try deferent holds and determine what works best for certain springer's... :wink:
but the artillery hold should be your first hold to try its a proven hold...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:11 pm 
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It seems they do a lot of enthusing about how good the groups are but without actually showing them. Or, they show the grouping on more distant targets but without showing much about how they are holding the rifle. Got to love that Brummie accent though...
It's not really all that different to the artillery "hold", which to my mind is more of a "principle" than a hold, they are just supporting where the barrel joins the stock rather than the more usual balance position or close to the trigger guard. It still looks like a loose hold though and they are not really gripping tightly or anything.
I will definitely try it out, though it may be difficult to get into position with a monopod rather than a fixed support. Nice one. Dale. :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:36 pm 
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yup - but who's Dale? :wink:
This is my offhand stance - holding further back towards the T-guard is too hard on my back. I hold all my rifles this way when shooting offhand - some, with right elbow a bit lower, depending on the rifle's weight and greometry of the stock.

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This type of hold allows you to roll with the recoil, if there is any, as with this 14 gauge, elephant/moose rifle. This was a 200 yard rifle match - this rifle won. This picture was taken about 2/3'rds through the recoil cycle - not all the way up, yet.
Note the ram-rod is even with the muzzle in the top picture, sticking out almost 1/2" on the bottom one. This rifle does have a bit of recoil, actually more than the Bam28C, but not much more - LOL

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:57 am 
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lol...I just notices I called you Dale too.... :lol: :lol:
you know I meant Daryl.... :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Yeah- I know. :D

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