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 Post subject: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:30 am
Posts: 23
Hi everyone,

This is my first post outside of the introduction section. I searched the forum for a discussion of the HW 35 E/ standard in 495 FPS or PAL and couldn't find what I was looking for.

Does anyone here own both? My understanding is that the German version of the HW 35 is rated around 425 FPS, so if not a question of manufacturer intention, which model do you have and why? Is it worth the approximately 80 more FPS to buy the PAL model?

The broader question could be: having a PAL, do you ever choose a non-Pal version, and why?

Personally, I am looking at the .22 HW 35 E. Most of what I like to shoot is tin cans, paper targets. However, the idea of it being able hunt something (anything!) makes me feel better about the price.


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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:47 am
Posts: 711
Location: Bradford
Citybilly wrote:
Hi everyone,

This is my first post outside of the introduction section. I searched the forum for a discussion of the HW 35 E/ standard in 495 FPS or PAL and couldn't find what I was looking for.

Does anyone here own both? My understanding is that the German version of the HW 35 is rated around 425 FPS, so if not a question of manufacturer intention, which model do you have and why? Is it worth the approximately 80 more FPS to buy the PAL model?

The broader question could be: having a PAL, do you ever choose a non-Pal version, and why?

Personally, I am looking at the .22 HW 35 E. Most of what I like to shoot is tin cans, paper targets. However, the idea of it being able hunt something (anything!) makes me feel better about the price.


I will answer your broader question. Yes, there are reasons why folks buy non pal versions of rifles or even detune Thier pal rifles to non pal by exchanging parts such as springs, pistons, transfer ports, Hammer springs, etc.
In my case for example, I went from 5000sq ft to a 1200 sq ft apartment. I only have so much room for legal storage. The safes are full, the closet is full, and I count 9 non pal rifles leaning in various corners from where I'm sitting :)

On top of that I only shoot indoors now and have a 9 yard range at home and a 30 yard range I have to drive to. Add to that I no longer hunt and only punch paper, and if THAT wasn't enough, have damaged shoulder and wrist from years and years of hot handloaded pistol and rifle loads.

So for me, not much point in a 1200fps pal .177 for example. Do I still have some? Yes of course, but to add another to the proper storage, a current one has to go away, so I detune one or give away one.

Unfortunately though I despise the 500fps limit. Too slow and it's like you are lobbing a pellet at a 30 yard target in .22

I would ALWAYS recommend though that you buy the pal version if you are able and have use for it, rather than upgrade it later, unless you are putting a tune kit like Vortek in it for example.

I also find these new big bore 700ft lb air rifles intriguing, but common sense brings me back to reality...What am I going to do with it? Where am I going to shoot it? What would I even use as a backstop,?

All of the above is only MY situation though and yours is probably much different, especially if you are young and just starting out.

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When the 425-hp "street Hemi" version hit the street in 1965, it was akin to taking an M230 chain gun to an arcade shooting gallery
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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:54 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:03 pm
Posts: 563
It all depends on the intended use, and where you'll use it.

If you want to shoot it in your backyard, and you city has a no-firearm-discharge within city limit... A PAL airgun could get you in some trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:30 am
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Thank you for these great answers, they really give me a lot to think about. Before reading this forum I never heard of these kits that seem to push the FPS on some spring rifles.


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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:25 am
Posts: 3432
Location: Ontario, Canada
The only HW35 that I had was a Standard model in .177 calibre. I think it was rated at 755fps back then. With a new spring and seals I was getting 745fps with 7.0gr RWS Hobby and around 720fps with 7.7 to 7.9gr pellets.

The full power 35 in .22cal is rated at 575fps.
https://www.dlairgun.com/Air-Rifles/Wei ... _35_E.html


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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:21 pm 
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TCooper wrote:
The only HW35 that I had was a Standard model in .177 calibre. I think it was rated at 755fps back then. With a new spring and seals I was getting 745fps with 7.0gr RWS Hobby and around 720fps with 7.7 to 7.9gr pellets.

The full power 35 in .22cal is rated at 575fps.
https://www.dlairgun.com/Air-Rifles/Wei ... _35_E.html


So is it rated 575fps, then reduced for Canadian market and further reduced for unlicensed German market?


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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:25 am
Posts: 3432
Location: Ontario, Canada
Citybilly wrote:
TCooper wrote:
The only HW35 that I had was a Standard model in .177 calibre. I think it was rated at 755fps back then. With a new spring and seals I was getting 745fps with 7.0gr RWS Hobby and around 720fps with 7.7 to 7.9gr pellets.

The full power 35 in .22cal is rated at 575fps.
https://www.dlairgun.com/Air-Rifles/Wei ... _35_E.html


So is it rated 575fps, then reduced for Canadian market and further reduced for unlicensed German market?


You can buy a full power version in Canada provided you have a valid PAL. If not, then you can still buy the detuned version at <500fps. I'm not sure why you would try to find a German rated version.

Sometimes dealers have a big price difference between full power and non-PAL versions. I noticed that at D&L Airgun there doesn't seem to be any financial benefit to buying detuned HW35.

Weihrauch adjusts many of their rifles for the various airgun markets and laws. Germany has the 7.5 joules, Britain has 12ftlbs, France has 20 joules and other countries may have different limitations. Often the limitations can be exceeded if a permit is obtained. Thankfully it's not difficult to get a PAL in Canada and enjoy no velocity limit.

If I have an option I would prefer the full power versions, or slightly detuned for better shooting characteristics. Sometimes it's nice to be able to reach out on longer targets or use the airgun for hunting. If the rifle is mainly for 10 metre basement shooting or a 20 yard shooting range then 600fps is fine. The 600fps is easier on my duct seal pellet trap. A while ago I bought a non-PAL Crosman Optimus and tuned it to just over 600fps for 10-20 yards. I bought a second one and tuned to 800fps for longer distance shooting. If you have a PAL then you can buy the velocity to suit your needs.


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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:42 am 
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I like D&L and would buy from them. I haven't decided yet, but non-PAL guns seem to have many benefits and one major detractor. It's a hard decision to make. My birthday is approaching and I'm sure I'll make a decision in the next month. Thanks for your thoughtful answer!


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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:59 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Dryden,Ontario
Do more research.I though I did enough then bought a non Pal rated gun,modded it to be Pal rated as much power as I could get and it is too much for what I wanted it for.In the process of de-tuning it so a scope can live on this gun.Only had it for 6 weeks and pieces are rattling around inside the scope.At this power level I can put clean holes through a piece of 3/4" hardwood @35' making it difficult to shoot safely inside.Be honest with yourself about intended use and don't get caught up in the most fps hype as I did and you will be happier with your purchase


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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:50 pm
Posts: 744
Location: Nova Scotia
Unlike say a full power 95 or 97 vs the NON PAL versions, there is not a big difference between a full power 35 and a 495 version. A sweet shooting gun without the BS of needing a PAL.

If you have a PAL, might as well get the full power. If not, get the 495 version.

Want to hunt? Get a full power 95 or something similar. The stock on the HW35E are too nice to be taking in the woods.


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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:30 pm
Posts: 409
Location: SW, Ont
I actually bought a really nice older .177 model (1979) HW35 from a forum member here. The gun was a German spec gun just breaking 600fps. Great gun very accurate but I found it a tad heavy for a 600fps gun. I actually went through 3 springs to find the guns sweet spot. I ended up with a Jim Maccari kit. The gun now shoots around 780fps and very smooth! The problem with the HW35 is the short air chamber, you can't get great power out of it without out turning it into a jack hammer. I actually put a Vortek H.O. spring in it and it shot so harsh it cracked the stock. Fixed now but lesson learned. Point is for the weight of the gun I should of bought a HW80, same air chamber O.D. but longer for more power. So all depends what you want. I find I shoot my tuned Slavia 634 (800fps) way more just because of the weight. You don't get tired shooting it. I guess I also shoot my PAL rated HW30 way more than the HW 35 because of weight.
Now the above guns are all .177cal but my best .22cal would be my U.K. made BSA Supersport, shoots around 650fps again because it's very balance and light. Just my 2 cents worth.


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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:21 am 
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I understand there are extreme limitations to a .22 cal at 495 FPS for hunting, and I do have a PAL, but if I do not renew it in the future I'd rather invest in something I can keep.


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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:47 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Posts: 628
Location: Nova Scotia
I primarily do pesting and hunting with my airguns. Since getting into the sport I've gotten my PAL and converted all my guns to be over 500 fps. I'll never go back to non pal airguns.

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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:20 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:17 pm
Posts: 1842
Location: Kingston, ON
I have a 495 HW35E bought from a forum member 3-4 yrs ago.
Unmodified, .22 cal here are the chrony numbers out of it:
Green box single hole at 10 m, yellow box within a nickle.


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 Post subject: Re: HW 35 E 495 or PAL
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:46 pm
Posts: 497
Location: Ontario
I have the PAL HW35E but not the de-tuned one so unfortunately I cannot compare. Just a few thoughts however...
The velocity / energy drop going non-PAL isn't too dramatic compared to some models. I suppose what you want to do / shoot may sway you one way or another.
I like moderately sprung guns as they are generally nicer to shoot.
On the other hand, HW de-tunes by chopping the spring at the front (not sure if they've changed in the time since I bought my last one) and the guns generally smooth up quite a bit with some deburring and lube. The HW's I plan to keep get a tune kit installed (custom spring with tight fitting spring guide) to take out the vibration on firing. If I'm feeling un-lazy I've used Maccari's glue-on buttons and they can really slick up the gun. After shooting slicked up HW's, unboxing and shooting a brand new one feels rather anti-climactic. All of this makes the detuned factory version insignificant if you're going to change it anyways :P
Another point is I've found the Canadian HW dealers have rather little in stock these days - which version you can get your paws on (without waiting several months if you're in a hurry) may also have a say in this.
Just a few rambling thoughts :D


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