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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:06 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Yukon
Bought a Turkish Webley Tempest last fall.
Felt like something was going to break when I cock it. It felt like my wrist more than anything. This gun was torture to cock. A little lube on the spring and drop of oil thru the transfer port and wait to see how the break in plays out... Few shots here and a few shots there (as it's just uncomfortable to cock) and eventually it consumed a tin. Still brutal to cock.

Pulled it apart to search for an answer, thinking it has to do with the overpowered spring apparently put in these Turkish guns - this is also the .22 version. I was willing to downgrade to a thinner spring.
The spring checked out ok, not scraping or grinding anywhere as I was left guessing and it wasn't storing as much energy as I thought. The piston/seal however was pretty damn tough to remove. I slimmed down the seal a little with the finest sandpaper I had and cleaned up the insides the best I could. Nothing special, but it has definitely made a difference, I can now cock this without having to pry it over my thigh and worry about popping out my wrist or slipping and the barrel snapping shut.. Which happened once.
My goal with this is just to have a gun that's fair to cock and simply shoots OK, not looking for speed and power. I really like the size of the Tempest, it is a fun little target/plinker. Overall, I think the problem was too tight of a piston seal. Eventually I will pick up a new seal and check for differences, but for now it cocks, shoots and I'm a happy camper.

Has anyone else had issues with these Turkish Tempests or was mine made on a Friday.
If so, has anyone had any good solutions to this?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
Mine are English made but the problem is the cocking linkage and cocking shoe, which by design see a lot of friction.
The shoe (T38) is scraping on the inside of the tube and the linkage bar has to scrape over that metal piece (T25). You can clearly see the problems when looking at it while cocking. If the tube is already galled up then I'd sand the area where the shoe rides to clean it up, and if needed shape the trailing edge of the shoe a bit to increase surface area while it's scraping and so it helps surf over lube rather scrape it away.
The easy fix for the friction issues is to keep those areas greased and reapply often or at the slightest hint of friction. Ideally you could sand the bottom of the linkage bar too and dry lube both sanded parts, then use a really good sticky grease. I use tungsten disulfide, then I mix it with bearing grease to make super grease, but moly paste would work if you're not interested in that. In the US tungsten is cheap but I guess not so much in CA? However you go about it, the key is keeping it lubed.
Parts list showing those T#'s; http://tinyurl.com/TWCTempestparts1
Newer/better pix but diff #'s; http://tinyurl.com/TWCTempestparts2

Cocking shouldn't be too hard but it seems those who have trouble is because they're doing it wrong. They way I do it which makes it very easy imo is: I hold the grip normally in my right hand and pop the barrel open, then while pointing the gun to my left, I put my left thumb on the flat part behind the front sight and fingers under the barrel. From there the motion to cock it should be instinctive and easy. Optionally you can put some back into it by rotating the gun ~80 degrees so the trigger guard is about in your belly button, then pull the gun into your gut and pry it open. Make sense?

Do NOT use silicone grease/oil on those parts, only real grease and preferably the best you can find. You shouldn't use silicone anywhere on it or in the chamber b/c it blows past the seal via the damaged spot(s). So if you buy a new seal then smooth the slots in the tube so it doesn't damage the new seal as well. The seal should never give any resistance, at least nothing you'd feel when cocking. If you sanded it's OD down then even more reason to buy a new one. Plus if you didn't smooth the slots then you may have doubled the damaged spots, which normally look like a potato peeler got it.
Hope this is the info you're looking for, and good luck :)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:06 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Yukon
I have seen a couple videos of people running the English versions with what looks like a lot less effort then what mine needed to cock. That's what started me thinking there is something wrong with this one.

From the start, I have been following that cocking procedure, its in the manual.

I will focus now on the cocking linkage shoe as you mentioned, but when it was apart it didn't appear to have been generating so much friction and creating damage in that area. I did add grease to it a few times, making sure it gets to the moving parts. It didn't seem to help, otherwise I wouldn't have opened it up being this concerned.

Once I have an order for other parts ready at TWChambers, I'll grab a new piston seal and see how it feels. I did see there is differences between the 1979-2005 and 2005-current models in the parts list. But it was really tight, I would say unnecessarily tight.
For its life up until the point I pulled it apart, it would shoot 11.9gr Hobby's at 290-300 fps. It seemed low from what I was reading others shooting at, or as advertised being the new, more powerful model.

Chevota, Thanks for the help tho, its appreciated. I will look into the tungsten disulphide as well.
Cheers,


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
Since the seal is not a parachute design it needs to be rather tight to seal the pressure, but as long as it's lubed it should slide easily. There may be some stiction to break it free, but once moving it should surf over the grease with very little friction. As for the other parts, you should be able to tell if it's spring or friction by how it feels. When everything is in good shape and greased the cocking will be smooth as butter, almost as if you're compressing air with no moving parts. Of course it isn't that smooth but it feels like it when comparing to a gun with friction issues. A gun with issues you can easily feel scraping and changes as it hits spots that are worse and so on. I never measured mine but it's said to be 25lbs at peak to cock and feels about that much to me. It seems unlikely they could make a spring that's much stronger than the one I have, plus the gun already has excessive hold sensitivity and a stronger spring only makes that worse but power gains would be minimal in comparo. But maybe since fps sell guns. Imo what the guns really need to bump power is a better transfer port, which you can tinker with but you can easily make it worse.
So when cocking is it butter smooth or can you feel scraping and/or inconsistent resistance? I don't suppose you have a pull type scale to measure cocking effort?
Velocity can vary for a variety of reasons, like that transfer port size and shape, which often extends into the chamber causing pressure loss, spring preload, main seal leakage from oem install damage, breech seal leakage, breech seal ID too small or too far off center. The breech being too loose or pellet too small, deep seating the pellet, bore inconsistencies, defects in the compression tube causing leakage. The spring may have a defect making it weaker in one or more spots, or throughout. Altitude drops power too, how much depends on the gun but my guess is the Tempest will lose a lot. I always measured mine at <1'k elevation so I never compared to higher, but even 1k should be a measurable loss to sea level. So lots of stuff can cost you. I guess tinker with it until you find the problem.
Your power should be >3ftlbs. How much I don't know, never measured my 22, but my unmodified 177 made 3 to 3.33ftlbs depending on the pellet used.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:06 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Yukon
The cocking stroke has smoothed out significantly. Before, it wasn't so much as a grinding but a heavy increase in resistance. It was like pulling a slingshot with a rope vs elastic. When I first managed to pull out the piston and seal, it was lubed adequately. I cleaned everything off, re-lubed and attempted to reinstall, but the seal seemed much too tight. It felt wrong. The last straw I had was to ever so slightly slim it down.

No I don't have a scale.. suppose I should add it to the wish list.

Its hasn't ever produced more than 2.3 fpe - 11.9gr @ 300 fps avg or 14.3gr @ 270 fps avg comes in at roughly 2.3 fpe. When I'm home next week, I will chrony to find out what it sits at now. I am not hoping to get more power from it, so I intend to leave the transfer port alone.

Rightfully so, I will continue to tinker but its back on the backburner --> mudbog season is approaching fast
Cheers,


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