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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:22 am 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
Dyceman wrote:
Ha - more or less ITGUY. But the main reason for me posting the question is, shoots what at 500 fps? What if you have your .22 pellet pistol tuned to shoot consistently at 495 fps - using your average everyday 13 or 14 gr lead pellet. That same gun would shoot a lighter weight pellet over 500 fps. So is it legal or not?


You have "tuned" the gun - thus you have modified it and if it does shoot over 500fps AND 4.2fpe with any pellet the "authorities" might use to test it - you have turned it into a firearm, requiring the same licensing as a .388 Lapua rifle - of any make - thus: requires a simple P.A.L.

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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 5:52 am 
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Daryl wrote:
Dyceman wrote:
Ha - more or less ITGUY. But the main reason for me posting the question is, shoots what at 500 fps? What if you have your .22 pellet pistol tuned to shoot consistently at 495 fps - using your average everyday 13 or 14 gr lead pellet. That same gun would shoot a lighter weight pellet over 500 fps. So is it legal or not?


You have "tuned" the gun - thus you have modified it and if it does shoot over 500fps AND 4.2fpe with any pellet the "authorities" might use to test it - you have turned it into a firearm, requiring the same licensing as a .388 Lapua rifle - of any make - thus: requires a simple P.A.L.


Fav rifle Browning BBR (9 lugs on bolt) in .338 WimMag....2 loads...1 with 210gr for reaching out and other. 275gr for oomph.

Anyway I digress....the box markings I have heard of before and tend to agree, but even with that there is some confusion....I have a Hatsan model 25 Supercharger pistol\carbine...everywhere on the box it screams 700fps...then in small print a disclaimer if your country has restrictions then this rifle has been modified at the factory prior to shipment to meet them.

Further, on the barrel block we have the model number laser etched, along with made in Turkey and finally 490fps. So the etching on the gun wins over the box I would think.

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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 8:37 pm 
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Location: United States
I've been wondering this for years. People like to get the max power, especially when it's already so low. So say you have a 22 that won't break 500 or the 4.2 regardless of pellet, then it likely shoots the common 14.3gr at <400fps, probably closer to 350. Who wants that?
If the rule were 500 w/ 14.3 I think everyone would be a lot happier. If rather than weight they claim "commonly available pellets" then you're more screwed every time some JA company makes a lighter pellet.
So if there is no weight definition then it's likely that many 22 guns are breaking the 500/4.2 limits right now. If a clear limit were given then people could get up to the limit w/o worrying so much.
I've learned from experience (in the US) that just because it's sold over the counter doesn't mean it's legal, and possession is 9/10ths. Even right now if I were caught with my airguns and prosecuted I would only leave prison in a casket. Thankfully the gov isn't interested, but the point is they could. So could yours jail you as you walked out the door of Canadian Tire w/ a new Crosman, or are you for sure it's 100% legal? There's always those cops that make every effort to impose what little power they have over you, for whatever little emotional issues they have, so should you not know exactly what is the legalities are to defend yourself from such bullies?

Another that bugs me is the 13xx pistols. What I think people would like is to mod the gun to make 500 in fewer pumps, so could they not just say, or mark on the gun that it's now a 5 pump gun? If not then what is stopping the cops from pumping an oem gun up 20x and saying you're a felon?


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Might shed some light. When in uniform, I acquired a Philladelphia Deringer that could not get over 450fps, with any load of black powder I tried with a patched round ball. I showed it to some (RCMP) friends in the forensic lab, who advised me to "register it anyway as a restricted weapon - WE can get it over 500fps"!

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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario
An interesting thread of conversation - not much left to add to this one.

Crosman's Webpage has an interesting read on "Airgun Ballistics". They pretty much state that they use the lightest pellets available when testing and advertising their guns.
http://www.crosman.com/get-hunting/airgun-ballistics

Quote:
It should be remembered that the advertised velocity for any air rifle is usually based on the velocity obtained with a very light pellet and even then may be a generous estimate.


So - be careful out there if modding your guns to increase power; and using regular weight pellets with your tests!


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:04 pm 
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One thing to keep in mind when dealing with borderline firearm legislation...

In most cases (in Canada) are innocent, until proven guilty.
When it comes to gun laws, your are considered guilty and have to prove your innocence.


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 8:11 pm 
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Unfortunately, this "SEEMS" very close to the truth now, silly mike, especially for first time offenders. Years gone by, guilty until proved innocent applied only to game regs.

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:39 pm 
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For everyone saying 'It doesn't matter, just get a PAL', the OP said gun, not rifle. If you get caught with a pistol that is determined to be a restricted firearm based on velocity and FPE, and you aren't at an approved gun range, then you're going to have some problems.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Then there's the whole can of worm in regards to municipal bylaws related to the discharge of "firearms"


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:00 pm 
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notthesnail wrote:
For everyone saying 'It doesn't matter, just get a PAL', the OP said gun, not rifle. If you get caught with a pistol that is determined to be a restricted firearm based on velocity and FPE, and you aren't at an approved gun range, then you're going to have some problems.


You could add to that, without ATT and registration - compounds the problems.

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