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 Post subject: Accuracy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:20 pm
Posts: 22
For my first high power air rifle, I bought a Benjamin Trail NP XL in .177. I have spent the last three weeks or so trying to get some accuracy out of it. I've bought 20 different types of pellets and I am finally seeing some very good results with Gamo Raptors and Armor pellets. The Gamo Rockets are ok as well.
I am shooting at 25 yards. Is this too far? Not far enough? The inconsistency of other pellets is quite disturbing, considering HyperMax has a totally unpredictable pattern and RWS Hyper Velocity seem to tumble.
The Raptor and Armor are both light pellets and the Rockets are a little heavy, yet all three have pretty good groupings, especially the Raptors.
Polymags and RedFire are pretty close to the same accuracy but a little too big of a group (3") to satisfy me.
The Gamo Tomahawk are pretty good as well, but again, outside my desired accuracy.
I guess my question is, what can I do to provide consistant accuracy with a range of pellets. What type of maintenance is required for this gun? How often should I clean and oil it?
As stated, I am completely new to this type of shooting. I have been shooting rifles and handguns forever, but this is perplexing me due to the differences with powder burners.

Anxiously awaiting replies,

Ken


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:29 pm
Posts: 140
Location: Nova Scotia
I haven't tried that rifle, but most "high powered" guns prefer heavy pellets to stop them from breaking the speed of sound and becoming unstable.


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:26 pm
Posts: 477
IMO First of all NONE of the pellets you are using are any good. :(
Get some JSB Match Diabolo in 8.55 grain and keep it under 900FPS
You will be shocked on how much better your rifle will shoot. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:51 am
Posts: 226
Location: Richmond, BC
From my and a friends experiences its not the pellet with this particular air rifle but the air rifle itself.....i havent seen one of these ever have good groupings..... Just watch teds holdover review on youtube and you will see what i mean....


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:20 pm
Posts: 22
id try some heavy h&ns in it found my gas ramer likes a heavy pellet


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:22 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Hill Spring, Alberta
You mention that this is your first "high power" air gun. Have you shot the under 500 fps air guns at all? Are you shooting from a rest, or holding the gun?

Your experience with powder burners might not be helping. :shock:

Have you tried the "artillery" hold? You essentially "balance" the gun with your hands cheek and shoulder, not gripping it tightly and allowing it to recoil as it wants to. Hold it as you would a normal rifle, then loosen both hands and let it come off your shoulder a bit.

I find that RWS-SHP, H&N Field Target Trophy, and JSB Exact work best in my guns.

Peter :D


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:27 am
Posts: 1108
Location: Thunder Bay,On.
Your XL in .177 shoots very fast....forget about 8 grain pellets....but don't go TOO heavy either...Look for a round pellet in a 10.65 gr. I'll bet your gun likes them........Like the above post stated....keep it around 900 fps or less and I think you'll need at least a 10.65 to do that with YOUR gun.....good luck..... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:20 pm
Posts: 22
This may seem like a dumb question, but why would you want to slow down the projectile? I am going to try it, I'm just looking for reasoning.

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:20 pm
Posts: 22
PeterG wrote:
You mention that this is your first "high power" air gun. Have you shot the under 500 fps air guns at all? Are you shooting from a rest, or holding the gun?

Your experience with powder burners might not be helping. :shock:

Have you tried the "artillery" hold? You essentially "balance" the gun with your hands cheek and shoulder, not gripping it tightly and allowing it to recoil as it wants to. Hold it as you would a normal rifle, then loosen both hands and let it come off your shoulder a bit.

I find that RWS-SHP, H&N Field Target Trophy, and JSB Exact work best in my guns.

Peter :D
It's very heavy for the artillery hold.

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:29 pm
Posts: 140
Location: Nova Scotia
hogman3006 wrote:
This may seem like a dumb question, but why would you want to slow down the projectile? I am going to try it, I'm just looking for reasoning.

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Because when a pellet gets close to breaking the speed of sound they often become unstable, also a slower heavy pellet will usually hit harder than a fast light pellet from the same gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6084
Location: P.G. B.C.
An inexpensive, yet quite accurate pellet in many higher velocity rifles, is the Crossman Ultra Magnum, at 10.5gr. This pellet has shot well in every .177" rifle I have, springer, CO2 or PCP.

A speed range of 960fps is VERY good goal. Much over this will net trouble from instability with "waisted" pellets. (pellets with a waist)

If you have a chronograph, trying pellets to get into this range, might be a good goal.

JSB makes pellets to about 13.3gr., iirc. These shot fine at 950fps from the PCP, but my HW didn't like them.

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Daryl


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:20 pm
Posts: 22
Ok. So, I cannot believe how much a little breeze affects this type of shooting. I had some PDG pointed pellets, a little heavier than those I have been using at 9.3 grains. I was shooting without much success this afternoon. I tried it again after supper and was amazed at the difference. My groups closed up to about 1.5" and I'm pretty sure that once I get my grip on the rifle figured out, I will be able to tighten it up even more. Progress is being made

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:46 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1278
Location: United States
25yrds is an excellent distance, no worries. I'd get the JSB 13.43gr pellets, which aside from being possibly being the best pellet for that gun, should put it ~900fps which is a great speed for accuracy. From 900 on up to super sonic it gets worse, and while I haven't really had issues with going to 1000fps, 900 is technically better. Plus heavier pellets generally shoot better anyway, especially at longer ranges and they tame the gun a bit which makes for better shooting all-around. So the 10.34gr JSB is what's I'd consider the absolute min weight, which is likely ~1000fps and thus costing you at least some accuracy. JSB also makes a 16.something you might want to try just to see what happens. It'll probably shoot just fine and be between 750-800fps, but at some point going up in weight the gun will have issues and I don't know where that line is. I think it's higher than 16gr, just saying I don't know for sure. What'll happen is velocity will become erratic, but if the gun is ok with them you might like 'em.
I mention JSB mostly b/c I consider them awesome pellets and they aren't very expensive, plus that 13gr is a unique weight and is imo ideal for magnum springers like the XL, Diana 350 etc. I think the H&N Barracuda Match are awesome too, maybe even better but they're only in 10.5gr. The Crosman Premier round nose are great as well, also 10.5gr. I'd try 'em all b/c often/usually a chinese gun will shoot one much better than any other but my $ is on that 13gr.
You can also try getting a 22 barrel for it b/c the gun works much better in 22, and makes more power which I assume you want since you bought an XL. A barrel should be ~$32CA from the Gravel Agency.
Aside from that there are many other things that can hurt accuracy in that gun. The barrel drooping downward, which you can see, or use a yard/meter stick to verify, can cause a couple issues with the scope. The main seal is poorly designed and imo all XL owners should get this guy: http://tinyurl.com/o7jsmwz It not only makes the gun shoot smoother but also nets a good chunk of free power. The breech seal often leaks so check that and maybe replace with a rubber O-ring. The barrel has serious flaws which you can verify by pushing a pellet thru by hand with a dowel or cleaning rod. You'll feel it's both rough and more importantly has tight spots. The muzzle end may also have damage anywhere from the very end to several mm down. The barrels side pivot washers are just plastic so they offer little support and the barrel can move side to side, which you can verify. The barrels pivot bolt is not precision (lumpy), and since the barrel uses that to settle on it can cause it to point in diff directions, especially if the side washers are weak as mentioned.
Things I do: Shim the scope so its angle matches the barrel. Replace the plastic barrel washers with metal ones that are custom fit. Sand the barrel bolt more round. Sand the barrel to smooth it and remove tight spots, and if needed cut off the bad end. Replace the seals as mentioned, plus I do misc other things. A lot of this stuff is tricky and/or you need to know critical info before doing, but I made a how-to guide for it, pix and everything. chevota at hotmail and I'll send it to you. If you buy a barrel let me know first b/c there's some things you need to know so you can decide on what other parts (if any) you need. Meanwhile get those 13gr JSB's!


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:20 pm
Posts: 22
Ok, so I did everything but change the seal. I had to order it and will install upon arrival. 
I still do not have the best accuracy. The heavy pellets are terrible. No consistance at all. They are all over the target. I get about a 1 3/4" group with both Predator Polymath and Gamo Red Fire pellets, but everything else is crap. I have tried at least 15 different kinds of pellets. 

I pushed another pellet through the barrel tonight, and the whole thing seems loose to me. Should there not be some resistance in the barrel? Once I get the pellet past the first 2" or so, it just seems to push very easily the rest of the way. 

Any ideas?


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