Canadian Airgun Forum

The #1 Community for Airguns in Canada!
It is currently Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:09 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


The Canadian Airgun Forums are a place for people to discuss and learn about airguns and the airgunning sport in Canada. There are lots of discussions about airguns, airgun accessories, reviews, modification and repair information, airgun events, field target and free classifieds!

 

You need to register before you can post: click the register link to proceed. Before you register, please read the forum rules. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own pictures, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free! To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.








Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:27 am
Posts: 1108
Location: Thunder Bay,On.
I replaced my breech seal in the Phantom with a brand new OEM seal a few days ago and then read about some rifles that use the o-ring type seals so I picked one up from Home Depot to gve it a try......Fps increased over a new OEM seal an average of 18.5 over 3 groups of 10......Cool.......$.026 :D

_________________
The cave you fear to enter....holds the treasure you seek


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1190
Location: Eastern Townships
Hey thanks for the hint MyCrosman! What size did you buy? Did you need to shim it?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:24 am
Posts: 1545
Location: Calgary
Yes, do give us a part number for that o'ring and the steps you took to get it in place. Part # may be in the receipt. Need to work on both my Phantoms, will definitely be doing this mod. Thanks for the heads up.

_________________
No, no, it was bigger than that! It looked like a weird monkey-dog thing!
COG First Class Recruit
Gears of War


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:27 am
Posts: 1108
Location: Thunder Bay,On.
Yes....I am going to get some more of them today and do the Venom and Optimus too.I will let u know the number.........They are in the plumbing section and sometimes you can find a single stray one in the bins like I did ....The outside diameter is just a little too large but it took me less than 5 minutes to go around the outside with 400 grit to size it to fit.....Easy....The inside diameter is a perfect fit.......350 shots so far with the Pal rated Phantom and the seal face is still smooth and shiny...they're going to work out great...... :D

_________________
The cave you fear to enter....holds the treasure you seek


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:24 am
Posts: 1545
Location: Calgary
I'm assuming you have a crony. Can you please take a reading before and after you mod these other two guns? Just to ensure this will indeed increase fps and by how much.
This has got to be the most economical fps/penny

_________________
No, no, it was bigger than that! It looked like a weird monkey-dog thing!
COG First Class Recruit
Gears of War


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 1190
Location: Eastern Townships
MyCrosman wrote:
...350 shots so far with the Pal rated Phantom and the seal face is still smooth and shiny...they're going to work out great...... :D


Now that's interesting! Especially since I sand the receiver face smooth (down to 1000 grit), I can assume they'll do good in my non-PAL air rifles :)

Thanks MyCrosman!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:38 pm 
Offline
Site Moderator

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:25 am
Posts: 3432
Location: Ontario, Canada
Great idea! I'm surprised that nobody has ever posted about this before. The full-power Rugers come with plain o-rings so it's just a matter of finding the best size for the Crosmans. As you said, the seals can be gently sanded. Spinning them with a drill (to sand) might be easy if you use a Dremel drum sander without the grit sleeve.

Thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:27 am
Posts: 1108
Location: Thunder Bay,On.
TCooper wrote:
Great idea! I'm surprised that nobody has ever posted about this before. The full-power Rugers come with plain o-rings so it's just a matter of finding the best size for the Crosmans. As you said, the seals can be gently sanded. Spinning them with a drill (to sand) might be easy if you use a Dremel drum sander without the grit sleeve.

Thanks!


That's funny...…After reading your post I remembered that I HAVE a dremel and could have spun the o-ring in seconds...instead of doing it the hard way..lol...oh well.....thanks for bringing up the idea..I will do the rest of the o-rings the easy way tomorrow. :wink:

_________________
The cave you fear to enter....holds the treasure you seek


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1278
Location: United States
It's an AS568-109, aka -109. Optionally you can get the Crosman # CRS5177A013.
If getting a plumbing one in fractions get 1/2"OD x 5/16"ID x 3/32.
None of the above need to be sanded btw, they fit very well.
Should also fit common Diana and clones. An XL it's a -110. I think most any gun will be -109 thru -111.

TCooper: I've posted about this before, probably many times, and it's in the guide I believe I gave you? The guide should also have details about install as well. Basically you need to be sure it's at the correct height so it's sealing. If it sticks out too high then the barrel doesn't close all the way and droops, not far enough and it'll leak. The oem plastic breech seal will settle into the correct height on it's own, which is no doubt why they use it b/c it saves time/$, but it's not really a good seal.
You can get them in many different materials. Buna-N aka Nitrile being the most common. Viton is second most common and many consider it better but I don't know if it matters here. Others are generally not locally available.
The Buna N usually come in a hardness of 70, which is what you want. The second most common is 90 which is stiffer.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:27 am
Posts: 1108
Location: Thunder Bay,On.
DARN....I went through all that trouble (5 minutes) of sizing the closest size o-ring they had in stock and making it work better than the original seal ..…when instead I could have waited weeks for one to arrive from Crosman or for the hardware store to replenish their stock...I even figured out to set the correct depth to avoid barrel droop or sealing issues all by myself.....I'm so proud.....

_________________
The cave you fear to enter....holds the treasure you seek


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:27 am
Posts: 1108
Location: Thunder Bay,On.
Joolz wrote:
Yes, do give us a part number for that o'ring and the steps you took to get it in place. Part # may be in the receipt. Need to work on both my Phantoms, will definitely be doing this mod. Thanks for the heads up.


The above post has stated the correct size o-rings you need and if (by Murphys Law) the hardware store does not have the exact size .......you can easily modify the next size up to fit perfectly.....in 5 minutes.....or as TCooper pointed out....thankfully....just spin them with a drill or dremel with fine sandpaper...a little at a time....for a nice snug fit...
This stuff isn't rocket science....though some people on here want you to think so.....let us know how the new seals perform in YOUR particular gun.....cheers

_________________
The cave you fear to enter....holds the treasure you seek


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:51 pm
Posts: 257
Location: Dryden, Ontario
Awesome, I trimmed down a round seal from the hardware store and it works great.Naturally they never had the right size at our store either.But I used a drill with 400 sandpaper and gently sanded it down till it fit.My old seal must have not fit right because the new one I made shows a 35 fps increase.Thanks a lot.I love this forum.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:46 am 
Offline
Site Moderator

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:25 am
Posts: 3432
Location: Ontario, Canada
This posting is actually the first time I have seen mention of the o-ring conversion for the Crosman. This old man is not too computer literate and I haven't yet been able to open the complete B18 guide that Chevota sent me. I still have it saved and need to download a safe zip program. I plan to do this soon but always worry when downloading programs (virus paranoia). This complete guide should be a great read when the weather keeps me indoors.

I give credit where credit is due. I did get some very useful information from the trigger guide that Chevota sent in a zipped file (Nov 20, 2016) and graciously sent it to me again in Word format so I could open it (Dec 10, 2016). I highly recommend the read!

Anyone looking for o-ring seals can also go to their local hydraulics shops and their gasket&seal shops. Check yellow pages. Seals can often be bought or ordered for cheap in many sizes and materials. I even picked up a new Benjamin 312 pump cup for only $5.00Cdn and a complete seal set for the Crosman 600 for a few dollars (urethane). As was said, the 70 durometer Nitrile are usually easy to find in hardware stores and work fine for this minimal friction application.

I plan to pick up some of these plumbing o-rings to compare velocities on my Optimus. It looks like a bag of them is only $2 at HD. This might be the right size.
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.12-u ... 47525.html


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:27 am
Posts: 1108
Location: Thunder Bay,On.
Chevota?.....ya the man knows his stuff.....I was pointing out that sometimes you can make do in a pinch if you can't find a specific part right away.Speaking of making do....I wish there were alternatives for a piston....need one for a Crosman Venom or Phantom etc....and the gravel agency says they're obsolete.There's a FEW parts I checked on from them ( .177 barrel) and it comes up obsolete...I may have to check parts availability for a Diana 350 magnum and if it looks good I'll pick one up....I'm getting frustrated trying to find parts for the Crosmans.... :(

_________________
The cave you fear to enter....holds the treasure you seek


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1278
Location: United States
The Gravel Agency can apparently get any Crosman #, except I assume suppressor baffles.
When you say alternatives for piston do you mean the piston itself or seals? You can get a piston for sure so I'll assume seals.
Btw Crosman updates parts #'s often so when I order they often note (now part # is......) and I still get it. If Gavel orders using your # then I'd assume Crosman would update, but who knows. Or maybe the person at Crosman (or Gravel) doesn't know or care and just says discontinued. I've had a lot of misc problems ordering from Crosman, like they send the wrong part, wrong qty, or not sending an item at all. In one case, the B18 barrel pivot bolt, they always send the wrong one, and I tried for years including sending them a pix of the correct one next to the one they sent and have yet to see the correct one. Fortunately the wrong bolt can be sanded using a drill and Dremel to redneck lathe it to fit and the end result is actually better, but most people can't do that.
You can email Crosman direct to get any updated #'s if Gravel is being difficult. Usually the updated # is a change in the last digit, like the piston often ends in a letter and I've seen A, B, D and E. The nitro piston used to end in -100A, then a few years ago it was -00, today maybe diff. The nitro spring was -5, then -5A last I checked.
If the barrel or piston part # you mentioned starts with a CRS then it's possible they are all gone b/c that's an old discontinued gun that they apparently dropped when the released the NP2. I know the 177 barrels are gone :(
That CRS # was originally the Legacy (circa 2003) and is what the NP2 was made from, so if anyone needs parts not listed in the NP2 parts lists, which are the main seal and trigger parts, you can get that Legacy list. Not the new Legacy, the old, or use the list for RNP77-RNP22 which is the nitro version. I also modified an NP2 parts list to include those if anyone wants.

Crosman only carries the one seal for the B18, but you can also get Pyramid Air # PY-A-4100, which is nice but $pendy.
Another option is the O-ring seal from Vortek they list for the AirArms TX200, but I didn't see it listed last time I looked. They do have a new moly impregnated parachute seal for the TX200, and the 28mm Diana. Their previous Diana seal sucked but judging from the image it looks like they made it substantially better. I think I'll order one of each to check 'em out.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

phpBB SEO