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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:13 am
Posts: 156
I've been shooting my Crosman .22 Shockwave NP all wrong. A loose artillery hold gives me 1.5" groups at 12 yards. Gripping it tight with both hands keeps my groups to within a dime... Is this common with gas ram rifles?

It's no magnum springer, but it kicks pretty good at 15+ fpe.

_________________
Stoeger X3 .177, UTG 3-9x40 - 5.5 fpe
Crosman Shockwave NP .22, Hawke Airmax 4-12x40 - 16 fpe
Pumper Project .22, Centrepoint 4-16x40 - 13 fpe


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:11 pm
Posts: 51
Location: SW Ontario
35 years ago when my uncle gave me my first air rifle (bsa airsporter) no one said anything about "artillery hold", so now years on I'm aware of the theory and principle- and it doesn't hinder or help in any way I can see.. Often in life we can get caught up in technical details to the point where we begin to overthink the process of shooting, where upon in becomes unnatural and non instinctive.
It would seem that you've found the correct hold for "you", and plenty of trigger time will do more for your technique than fancy holds.
I would speculate that a deliberate follow-through does more than for which we give credit, but then I don't claim to be an expert on such matters.

Just shoot and enjoy!

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I reject your version of reality, and substitute it with that of my own..


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:06 pm
Posts: 864
Location: Meaford, Ont.
If you are happy with your groupings, carry on with what works. :) :)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:33 pm
Posts: 251
Location: Yukon
987654321 wrote:
I've been shooting my Crosman .22 Shockwave NP all wrong. A loose artillery hold gives me 1.5" groups at 12 yards. Gripping it tight with both hands keeps my groups to within a dime... Is this common with gas ram rifles?

It's no magnum springer, but it kicks pretty good at 15+ fpe.



Is your a sub pal model? How do u like it?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:13 am
Posts: 156
It started out as a sub 500fps air rifle, but it's got new guts.

Basically I wanted a cheap 30 yard rabbit gun, it should meet those needs pretty well.

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Stoeger X3 .177, UTG 3-9x40 - 5.5 fpe
Crosman Shockwave NP .22, Hawke Airmax 4-12x40 - 16 fpe
Pumper Project .22, Centrepoint 4-16x40 - 13 fpe


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:04 am
Posts: 786
I have a izh 61 that requires me to pull the stock in firm to my shoulder with my trigger hand to group well. My umarex surge requires a medium light grip on the trigger hand to group well offhand but next to no influence off the bench. All my springer's group better with my left hand using the artillery hold.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:32 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Burlington ON
I was getting very frustrated with my HW77, holding it as loosely as possible but then tried pulling it in more snuggly and started getting much better results.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:49 am
Posts: 244
Location: QC
https://www.pyramydair.com/article/The_ ... ne_2009/63

Quote:
When you fire a spring-piston gun, the pellet doesn't start to move until the piston comes to a stop.


Surely this is a false premise, the pellet does not wait in the breech until full compression is reached.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 2296
Location: GTA, ON
PZAM wrote:
https://www.pyramydair.com/article/The_artillery_hold_June_2009/63

Quote:
When you fire a spring-piston gun, the pellet doesn't start to move until the piston comes to a stop.


Surely this is a false premise, the pellet does not wait in the breech until full compression is reached.
How about the spring pistols while you are shooting one at free standing pose? Similar as the rifle and let the pistol 'floating' in your hands after pull the trigger ? (Hands means one hand hold the grip and the other hand as a support)

There are many break barrel springer pistol there, how to shoot well with them is also a challenge...

Sent from my LG mobile

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HW30/35
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:13 am
Posts: 156
Here’s my warmup with my Shockwave this morning, 5 shot groups from 13 yards. , Same pellets, same contact points, just slight variations in pressure until I found the sweet spot. If there’s any upside to being so hold sensitive, it’s that it makes the rifle kind of addictive.

Attachment:
D78C2B86-41C9-4F28-AC69-C50F735ACF30.jpeg
D78C2B86-41C9-4F28-AC69-C50F735ACF30.jpeg [ 59.11 KiB | Viewed 518 times ]

_________________
Stoeger X3 .177, UTG 3-9x40 - 5.5 fpe
Crosman Shockwave NP .22, Hawke Airmax 4-12x40 - 16 fpe
Pumper Project .22, Centrepoint 4-16x40 - 13 fpe


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:04 am
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987654321 wrote:
Here’s my warmup with my Shockwave this morning, 5 shot groups from 13 yards. , Same pellets, same contact points, just slight variations in pressure until I found the sweet spot. If there’s any upside to being so hold sensitive, it’s that it makes the rifle kind of addictive.



Good shooting bottom right.

Another upside to shooting a very hold sensitive airgun. Makes you a better shooter with everything else.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:30 pm
Posts: 44
Location: London ont
,my hw 95 groups well off leather bunny ear rear bag placed roughly in middle of stock and butt snugly held against shoulder. 1/2" groups at 30yds ,in 22cal with 3x9 weaver scope with a.o.Shooting the hw 35e with factory iron sights I was hitting tin cans at 50 yds 90% of the time with artillery hold.Both rifles shoot most well made pellets accurately.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:13 am
Posts: 156
Well, lots of time testing pellets and holds on my Crosman NP .22

Basically I have to hold the rifle on target with a light grip on my front hand. With my trigger hand I have to give the rifle a decent squeeze, and "push" my thumb forward into the rear of the receiver (as if I'm pushing the gun towards the target). Everything is more tight than loose. Any variation of the artillery hold sends the pellets in a 1.5" spread at 12 yards. If I squeeze tight I can manage dime size groups consistently at the same distance.

On the plus side, I learned I can shoot Crosman domed pellets accurately enough. At 2/3 the cost of FTT's that's pretty good news. I went through 2 tins of CPHP, neither tin was consistent at all. Finally tried a pack of the domed 14.3's and they're all hitting centre.

_________________
Stoeger X3 .177, UTG 3-9x40 - 5.5 fpe
Crosman Shockwave NP .22, Hawke Airmax 4-12x40 - 16 fpe
Pumper Project .22, Centrepoint 4-16x40 - 13 fpe


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6203
Location: P.G. B.C.
Experimentation as to what is the best hold, is as important as finding the best pellet. It is all about trial and error.

It is interesting to observe others shooting their springer rifles- watch some of Si Pittaway's videos from Sandwell Field Sorts in the UK.

He holds all of his rifles the same way, it seems, however all of his rifles have been tuned by Tony at Sandwell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twg7e2jdAs0

At 17:00 minutes, Tony is shooting one of his tune jobs. Si uses pretty much the same hold when shooting in Sanwell's attic, slightly different off bags.

This hold works with my 98 and 97, however they both (shoot slightly better) prefer a middle-of-the-stock rest on the bag along with a hinge-location hold of my left hand.

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Best Wishes
Daryl


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:39 am 
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Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 7:38 pm
Posts: 17
As you have discovered, the arty-hold is NOT the be-all-end-all. Each of your gun's may react differently with alternative holds. I've also found that certain pellets will do better in certain guns with different holds. It's no wonder some gunners maintain log-book to keep track of all of the quirks, LOL. :oops:


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