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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:44 am 
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Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Off to a slow start on this tonight.

Spent a lot of time on comparison- especially at the valve. Poppet end of the 2200 valve is quite a bit longer than the 13-XX, and about twice as long as the same part on the 2100. I tried with the inlet half of a 13-XX valve, and they will thread together, but the exhaust hole and front guard screw hole are about 35 degrees off-set. The front guard screw hole is farther forward in the tube as well, due to the increase in valve length.

I'd like to take advantage of that small volume increase~ but am concerned about strength of the valve body. The easy way would be to drill and tap a new guard screw hole. I wonder how much a second hole would weaken the valve wall....

I think what I have is a first generation 2200. There is no step milled around the end of the exhaust body for the tube dimple to catch on. The valve body is brass.

On a side by side comparison, the 2200 tube has a little over 1/2" more stroke length over the 13-XX, measured from the valve stop dimples on both tubes.

I am tempted to try ordering in a new 2200 valve, just to see what I get. That is one of the few part numbers that hasn't changed from the first variant to present day.

I have quite a bit of work ahead of me on this project.

I have a new brass flat top piston made up and ready to go...

I'll try and get a few parts photo's up before the week-end.

-D.S.

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Last edited by Doc Sharptail on Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:53 am 
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Location: Caronport, Saskatchewan
Wow, exciting! Looking forward to pictures.
I have used valves that had to be unthreaded a ways to line up, and haven't had any trouble. Not saying it's a good idea, just that I've done it, lol [emoji5]
So, that is quite interesting that the valve is so much longer than a 2100 valve. I wonder if the 2200 and 2100 had the same length tube? This would give the 2200 a shorter stroke and less volume air per pump.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:30 am 
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Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Image

2200 at left, 13-XX at right. Note the small size of the exhaust outlet on the 2200 valve. Tool marks on the inlet side of this valve were already there when I bought the 2200 used.

Image

Here's the hybrid valve I'd like to use. It is almost 1/2" longer than the stock 13-XX valve. :mrgreen:
From the looks of it, all I'll have to do is come up with a slightly longer poppet return spring of similar tension. I'm sure I'll be able to find something.

Image

Piston comparison. Home made brass flat top head on a delrin pivot base. I have some 1/4" x 20 rod to make it long enough for the 2200 tube. The felt oil wiper on the stock 2200 piston is still in good condition. It was still wet with oil when I bought the gun. Note the pivot end~ the nylon section is a dead ringer for stock 13-XX, minus the piston cup.


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Preliminary fitment. This tube has yet to see one of my drill bits...


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Quick tube comparison. There's a bit of cutting to be done to lengthen the sear slot...

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Pump handles. The 22-89 style at top grows on you after a while. I like them, but they crack very easily. I'll use the one on the bottom for this build.

-D.S.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:35 am 
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Got it together tonight.

It pumps up and holds air. It retains quite a bark at 25 pumps, and none at all at 20.
I opened up the exhaust port to .169". That may not be enough~ it's still a bit smaller than the exhaust port on a 13-XX valve.
The 13-XX hammer spring I put in is just about coil bound at cocked, without an RVA. I'll need to come up with a recessed end cap somehow, in order to get an RVA on it, and use the longer and heavier 2200 hammer spring.

No opportunity yet to run pellets through it. I'll get some time in on it somehow this coming week...

-D.S.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:33 am 
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On to something here :mrgreen:

Unfortunately, very low on my usual test pellet- the JSB Heavy. Resorted to old standby Daisy 14.3 gr h.p.'s.

At 3 pumps, avg 311.5 fps over 10 shots. 8) Extreme spread 10.1 fps.

At 5 pumps, avg 426.9 fps over 10 shots, extreme spread 12.1 fps

At 10 pumps, avg 569.8 fps over 10 shots, extreme spread 9.9 fps

At 15 pumps, avg 675.5 fps over 10 shots, extreme spread 10.0 fps

I didn't take it any further than 15 pumps~ she's blasting a little air through the trigger guard, which usually indicates the stem is going to fail.

I have a couple of 2200 valves on the way, courtesy of S&A. The one I'm using is awfully tired and worn.

Surprised to get that much out of it with the exhaust hole still a bit on the small side. The 13-XX hammer spring that's in there is darn close to coil bound with no RVA on the gun, in case I haven't mentioned it earlier.

Will try and get a pic or 2 of the current state of the build...
Nice to be on the right track with this :wink:

-D.S.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:35 am 
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Scopeless and sightless here, but she still means business.

Image

That P-rod grip frame and trigger makes all this effort well worth it, when it comes down to the shooting and hitting what you want side of things. Note lack of front guard screw. That breech band is what's holding it together.

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Piston detail. Union nuts prevent the too light for the task 1/4" x 20 tpi threaded rod from bending in the tube. A little weighty, I admit, but it works....

-D.S.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:11 am 
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Great work! That's really moving those pellets at 15 pumps! Pretty good for a 1322 spring. I'm still stuck around 575 as a top speed, something must be still slowing down my hammer.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:31 am 
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I had a heck of a time on this one with the hammer pin slot and especially sear slot burrs. Still not polished to my satisfaction, but at least the hammer isn't binding.
Have to make a run soon for more 600 and 1000 wt auto body paper. I'm completely out now... Some dowel rod would make this job a lot easier.

-D.S.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:41 pm 
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Location: Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia
Nice work, looks good! gonna pack a punch too, pumpers are great for the variable power! 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Location: Pinehurst, NS.
You guys could try a product called Cross-buffs for beguiling and polishing the inside of the tubes.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:22 pm 
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Location: Pinehurst, NS.
Here's a link;

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/ ... 7497&rt=r3

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Got it scoped last week and tried for a few groups from front rest only at 12M.

Image

6-24X mildot banner in some millet aluminum rings that I got on closeout clearance from Wholesale Sports a couple months back. Had to shim the rear ring to get enough elevation.

Image

Not too shabby for cheap pellets. These give fairly low extreme spreads over the chronograph.

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Juicing up the power tightens groups considerably (I yanked the one at left- not gun or pellet).

Image

Clean take-out of the soda can pull ring tab rivet @675 fps. I actually saw the pellet skate across the surface of the can and cut a second hole~ through the scope at 12X.

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Pellet took a beating, and flattened in a weird manner due to the reaction of impact. It's head expanded to a gnat's hair over .25"...

-D.S.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:25 pm 
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Nice! You're getting great speed accuracy and consistency. Great to see, I've got something to work towards anyway [emoji846]. My 14" barrel is probably hindering my velocity somewhat but not the total problem.
Happy Easter! Hopefully spring is going to sprung soon!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:29 pm 
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575 is great out of a 14" bbl...

-D.S.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:03 pm 
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Thanks Doc I've got it up to 585 with the 2100 spring but that's about it. Probably need more valve and polishing inside hammer area of the tube as mentioned.
Ratchetman, have you tried these 3m products? Where can a guy buy them?
ratchetman wrote:


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