Canadian Airgun Forum

The #1 Community for Airguns in Canada!
It is currently Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:48 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


The Canadian Airgun Forums are a place for people to discuss and learn about airguns and the airgunning sport in Canada. There are lots of discussions about airguns, airgun accessories, reviews, modification and repair information, airgun events, field target and free classifieds!

 

You need to register before you can post: click the register link to proceed. Before you register, please read the forum rules. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own pictures, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free! To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.






Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 1673
Location: GTA, ON
I think the barrel makes the best deal right?

Then, what's the factor of a barrel related to the accuracy? Threading? Length? Crowning? Anything else?



Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:49 pm
Posts: 1240
Location: Southern Ontario
Straightness and quality of the barrel material, quality and consistency of the rifling, smoothness of the shot cycle, barrel/breech mating, exact alignment of the sights to the centreline of the barrel, the list goes on...
At some point, you discover accuracy largely depends on the shooter. Consistency in technique improves accuracy, within the limits of a given pistol/rifle.

_________________
Air and springs and CO, too


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 1673
Location: GTA, ON
Wow... That's a bit too much ~ it's a text book of accuracy ~ lol ~ but it's very detailed and thanks!

I actually just wondering why a P17 at such a low price ( selled for $29.99, so what's the cost to make this gun then? $10 USD?!) and can be so accurate?

I don't think it uses very costy material on the barrel, and we can't say a 5, 6 inches barrel is long, right? so there would be just some easy design on the barrel to make it accurate... The rifling?! And is this patented?

The cheapo P17 just shoots much accurate than my pellet replicas...


Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1233
Location: United States
Imo the barrel is #1, but depending on the gun there's lots of things than ruin accuracy. Springers have all kinds of problems to screw up accuracy, and aside form all the mechanical issues you can have they are considered the most difficult gun to shoot well. Often people who are very good with firearms will be at a loss trying to shoot them.
The P17 doesn't have a great barrel, it's an ok barrel at best but compared to a springer it's pretty accurate since there's little else to screw things up. I have two, maybe three P17's and all the barrels are too loose. This is not the end of the world but it leaves virtually no room for me to make improvements, and some pellets are literally too loose in it. Being loose is mostly a chinese barrel problem and it can kill the accuracy. The only hope is a new barrel or new gun but another of the same quality is another gamble. This is why people with chinese guns, mostly chinese springers, are the ones with the most accuracy problems. China cheaps out on the bore and rifling, and I often wonder how they can make the bore so bad b/c I think you'd have to make an effort to do such a bad job. They do a much better job on every other part so wth?
An extra bonus on a barrel is a choke which can make any barrel better. Generally only the best guns have them, and I think the lowest gun to have it is the Diana.
Lots of other misc factors but if the barrel is bad nothing else is going to make up it.
Pellets are another important factor so I always suggest people spring for the good stuff. JSB and H&N are my faves, and the Baracuda Match is my fav H&N. If people buy cheapies (again chinese) they may never find out what, if anything, is wrong with the gun b/c it may never shoot them well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 1673
Location: GTA, ON
That's informative ~

And I may know a little why China made air guns have good plastic parts but a bad barrel as said....

There's a background historical reason that after WWII and Cold War etc, as a major part of the East side, almost all top rated, fine, high precision machinery are forbidden to output to China... ( Even the Intel Pentium processes once were not allowed to output to China...). And the good relationship between China and USSR ( CCCP in Russian) didn't last long... So there is a very long period Chinese just had no good machine to make such things... Plus the material technology etc....

Obviously, plastic, polymer, injection molding technology was not on the list...

I don't know the barrel in the P17 was just only made in China, but all design, parameters etc are from original HW...

I am not a professional in maching or shooter with many years experience... To me I just can't tell the difference between my P17 and my HW40 except the building and material quality... Accuracy is same between these two guns to me. And both guns are lot more accurate than my replicas, no matter it's made in Japan or made in Germany or Taiwan ( looks I don't have replicas from China...)....

So I think there is just some simple reason not related to money cause the gun to shoot accurate. ( Not included the initial spending in designs etc...) Maybe just say very accurate not the top rated accuracy like one hole in 10m, 1/2 inch groups from 50m etc....

Actually I think that's already good enough for ppl taking this as a hobby, a casual sport not competition purpose...

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:56 pm
Posts: 447
Location: Tecumseh, Ontario in South Western Ontario
Adding to the above I'd say a low extreme spread-ES of pellet velocity is essential. Not only can it make a big difference in the vertical spread of your groups but because it will also affect the barrel harmonics your pellets could be off by inches at long range.

_________________
Ed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:17 pm
Posts: 1749
Location: Kingston, ON
Its early in the morning for me, but I'll weigh in on the issue and hopefully provide some insight.
Accuracy in this case is the sum of all the parts including the shooter. The number one factor for being capable of accuracy on the part of the gun is precision. Google them up if you dont know the precise meanings, but precision can be thought of as how consistently the pellet will exit the barrel. If you take even a top end PCP and feed it the wrong pellets it will not be precise and hence the shooter will conclude it isn't accurate. But with the right pellet.. voila it's accurate. Spring guns are more temperamental, break barrels the most temperamental because you add the variability of lockup position with every shot and the shooter also has to be precise, ie has to handle the recoil consistently. HIH. BTW made in China guns can be precise, close tolerances and proper QC is what it takes!

_________________

Duke ))))----//----------==


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: shoot and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

phpBB SEO