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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:14 am 
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I wonder if wave springs can be made for air rifles.I understand the science of swept volume in regards to air gun power but I wonder if these wave springs would provide an enormous boost in air pressure and thus much increased fps....like sending a 21 grain pellet out at 900 fps......http://www.imeche.org/news/news-article ... e-springs-


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Last edited by MyCrosman on Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:24 am 
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I don't see how it's different than a regular spring that can be made to have any strength you want. Don't forget the stronger either type of spring is the harder it would be to cock and greater the recoil.

Ed.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:28 am 
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If you want more force, it is much simpler to use a gas ram with adjustable air pressure.... The only time a wave spring is necessary is if you can't use a conventional spring in the space available without it going coil bound, or exceeding the yield strength of the wire used....

Adding additional force beyond a certain point, with a given swept volume, only drives the piston into the end of the compression chamber and makes the gun horrible to shoot....

Bob

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:49 am 
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"Beyond a certain point" is what interests me....you can't add more spring force with a conventional full power spring...I couldn't even get a spacer the thickness of a dime behind a full power spring without it going coil bound.…(Phantom)but if you're saying a wave spring may be superior...UP to a certain point....given a swept volume....then I'll try it out for more power and of course shootability. :D

Bob

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:56 am 
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Or, you could use a different main spring, made of larger wire with fewer coils.... Either way, you are replacing the spring.... I think you will be disappointed in the harshness of the gun if you overdrive the swept volume, trying to get too much power....

I did that with a "red" MF19-100 gas ram (in a Phantom) and was hugely disappointed in how horrible the gun was to shoot....

http://www.n-forcer.com/content/pdf/Mini.pdf

The maximum cocking effort (at full cock) was about the same as a full power Phantom spring.... but of course gas-rams provide much greater force when uncocked…. so a greater AVERAGE force over the stroke.... Never again, thanks.... as the velocity hardly increased and the gun was virtually unshootable (is that a word? )…. :roll:

Bob

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Okay...I never heard of a wave spring before so I thought I would check it out...quite happy with my Phantom conversion to gas ram and I don't think I'll try the N - Forcer.....if it impairs shootability then its no good.....fair enough.. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:31 pm 
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Springs can be had in an enormous variety and there are standard sizes available in the industry They are called "die springs" and trust me, they can be very stiff. Design it properly and they will last millions of cycles.

https://www.lesjoforsab.com/standard-sp ... id1740.pdf

www.daytonlamina.com/sites/default/file ... prings.pdf

Those are standard sizes, but you can get anything you want made.

There are also companies that have thousands of sizes in stock and are online.

However......you can only deviate within a narrow range. Your seals, o ring, port, lock can only take so much. So you can see in the catalogue/net, spring availability is not the problem, everything else including your safety is the issue.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Spartan wrote:
Springs can be had in an enormous variety and there are standard sizes available in the industry They are called "die springs" and trust me, they can be very stiff. Design it properly and they will last millions of cycles.

https://www.lesjoforsab.com/standard-sp ... id1740.pdf

http://www.daytonlamina.com/sites/defau ... prings.pdf

Those are standard sizes, but you can get anything you want made.

There are also companies that have thousands of sizes in stock and are online.

However......you can only deviate within a narrow range. Your seals, o ring, port, lock can only take so much. So you can see in the catalogue/net, spring availability is not the problem, everything else including your safety is the issue.

Thanks...didn't realize there were so many options for springs....STILL it would be interesting trying out the wave design to see if it provided a much smoother shooting cycle compared to a round spring....maybe its still worth testing....if not for increased power...then smoothness....

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Main question would be the longevity between a wave spring vs a coil spring.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:27 pm 
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leadslinger wrote:
Main question would be the longevity between a wave spring vs a coil spring.


That's true too...another variable for me to test...this could take awhile...lol..

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:33 pm 
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[quote="leadslinger"]Main question would be the longevity between a wave spring vs a coil spring.[/quote]
I have used normal coil springs in what i do and depending on design criteria, its measured in millions of cycles.

Think of your car engine and valve springs. Itjink tjey are compressed to 10% of their sprong height and they cycle 10,000 hours at 200,000 cycles per hour.

Spring technology is very well researched and developed. The links i provided are industrial catalogues that usually have enormous technical forewords.

I have a "spring issue" in one of my air pistols. The springs are no.longer made so i have to find a sub for them.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Wave springs/ washers are great at their job, and can solve otherwise difficult short-range spring applications. Stacking them to make, say, a 9" Airgun spring wouldn't be a feasible application, methinks. Probably not impossible, but highly improbable that you could improve on the mechanical and space efficiency of a coiled spring.
But then, I also said that about gas pistons at one time... :D

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:30 am 
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rsterne wrote:
If you want more force, it is much simpler to use a gas ram with adjustable air pressure...


While not really practical in terms of something you would carry, a light gas gun style airgun where the gas ram is powered by a burst of gas from a reservoir through a valve rather than what can be compressed in a single stroke would yield some interesting velocities...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:13 am 
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57scott wrote:
Wave springs/ washers are great at their job, and can solve otherwise difficult short-range spring applications. Stacking them to make, say, a 9" Airgun spring wouldn't be a feasible application, methinks. Probably not impossible, but highly improbable that you could improve on the mechanical and space efficiency of a coiled spring.
But then, I also said that about gas pistons at one time... :D


Lol...I hear ya.....I wonder why they can't extend the compression tube for more volume and maybe shorten the barrel an equal length.....seems to me there has to be SOMETHING they can do....I want a 40 fpe gas ram/springer damn it...lol....

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:31 am 
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Easiest way is to double the swept volume and the power of the spring and increase the caliber to .25 -.30 cal.... We did a "how would you do this" thread on the GTA a few years ago to come up with the criteria for a .30 cal.... The conclusion was it would be a 20 lb. gun that nobody would want to cock, let alone carry around....

Bob

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Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


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