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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5884
Location: P.G. B.C.
I will add to the above if I was attempting to get a "MAGNUM .177, .25 or .22 air rifle shooting more accurately, I would most certainly pick up .177's in 10.5 Ultra Mag. Crossman RN, 12.3 and 13.3gr. JSB's, then in
.22's 18gr. through 23gr. then .25's in 26gr. through to 35gr. for testing starting with the lightest of THESE running to the heaviest and then stocking up on the best shooting peĺlets. I am certain when the pellet becomes too heavy for the gun, it will become erratic in speed and accuracy. Testing at 25yards or even further, will give MUCH more accurate test results than shooting at closer ranges.
I might also try to find a spring/seal kit that would give me reduced fpe - ex: 12 to 15fpe. This range of fpe will be potentially much more accurate and still aĺlow shooting game, if that is your intent, such as bunnies, squirrels, grouse, etc.
I suggest you watch some of Si Pittaway's & other's videos on hunting with 12fpe sprinters. They should give a new-found respect for these guns.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:26 pm
Posts: 27
Location: TO, ON.
And when your collections grows, you will find different gun likes different pellet is true. And your pellet collection will grows with your gun collection... I tried some times a pellet stuck inside the barrel after I pulled the trigger. I think that's more serious than an over weight pellet.

However it won't damage anything in your gun if just a few times. But just remember don't pair this pellet with this gun in the future, that's good enough ~[/quote]

I was looking at a video where the person was able to order the "same pellet(s)" (by H&N), even the front of the tins said the same generic information, Gram I grain, #pcs, Cal, and "head size" (5.5)mm , but in actually he purposely ordered various head sizes other than the tin listing and the sticker on the back of the tin showed what size was in that box...5.53,5.54, and 5.55mm heads.

Has anyone placed an ordered like that here? Could selecting larger or smaller head pellets help prevent oversize jamming or an under size tumble?
And maybe selecting a size other than standard might yield a tin with less chance of size variations pellet to pellet like some have measured?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:26 pm
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Location: TO, ON.
Once again weights higher than I imagined trying, but then again I have to get my head around the magnum and pcp monikers, or at least realise that I may be shooting in the magnum range and then when the supplier states "magnum round" then it might be worth some consideration.
I even ordered some 5.2 and 7.33 grain for when I get around to ordering a seal kit for my old ~'81 Canadian Powermaster 760.
...wonder why the old scope I bought for it didn't end up in the box with the manual somehow saved..time for a new years resolution to go through all those boxes of crap..and NOT re-box most of it?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:07 am 
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Location: GTA, ON
I am just wondering what's the purpose of the 'selected' pellet that OP need to use on...

For general usage, it's no need to worry about the minor difference between pellet to pellet at all. But for better quality, go for the brand names and pay higher price.

For special needs, it's never enough to hand pick the pellet from the same die, same production run, same lot, wash, lube.... Everything you think will help....

I don't need to go that far, so I just pay a bit higher price for the better quality pellets with good reputation, like JSB RS (my guns are sub 500s, so I use lighter pellets), RWS R10 etc...

Sent from my LG cellphone

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HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:26 pm
Posts: 27
Location: TO, ON.
The guns I ordered are the higher powered rifles the .22 is advertised as "800 fps" by the seller "up to 950 fps" on the manufacturers US site. So I'm guessing heavier side for pellets but was wondering, when the sales were on, what pellets people recommended and if while I experimented with weight performance I might somehow overload the mechanism to it's detriment?
The second rifle is advertised as "1400fps" and while slowing the pellet away from the sound barrier, noise and performance loss problems with extra mass. I was still wondering if loading it with enough mass to bring it down, to your gun's speeds (or less by going too heavy :idea: ) for example, might, once again, cause mechanical issues? Or have any gains on the pellet mass your using?
If your shooting a lighter grain Brand X hp at a tin and it goes in but doesn't exit at a given distance... would my heavier grain Brand X hp exit the tin at the same distance?
What if we used a chronometer and instead of distance and we both placed tins at the point our pellets were traveling the same fps? Would my pellet exit?

I haven't even opened my just arrived tins to see where they put the extra mass. Is the skirt more robust, or would they add it to the neck and/or the head? How would the structuring of the pellet's mass increase affect the target? Does each manufacturer add the mass in the same areas and thus react the same at the target if they both use the same basic shape like hollow point or wadcutter?

Was there the possibility that constantly running ultra light pellets (like a person might want for the way they handle in a lower power gun) might not buffer the piston travel in the right way causing damage in the higher power gun?
Because I found 5.2 grain RWS HyperMAX "30% faster * than standard pellet loads" $12.50 for 100 (from an airgun supplier). I figure on trying those in my old Powermaster 760 once it's got seals again.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5884
Location: P.G. B.C.
In MAGNUM rifles, which are generally the less expensive guns, stay away from light weight pellets or you will likely damage/break your spring and maybe damage the piston as well.
I thought that was plainly described.
Lightweight pellets may or may not damage a sub 500fps gun, but I will not use them in any of my guns as they are in the higher price ranges for springer's.
All of my guns have shown a like for:
.177 - 10.5gr. Crossman
------------8.0gr. Predator
------------8.3gr. JSB Cometa Match
.22 - 14.43gr. Crossman HP and Piranna?
---------16.0gr. Predator
---------19.09gr.Barracuda Ex.
---------23.3gr. H&N Mat h
.25cal. 26.0gr. Predator
------------31.3?gr. H&N RN
------------33.4gr. H&N Match

PCP rifles and Pneumatics, because they do not pressurize and fire from spring &piston movement, CAN safely fire lightweight pellets. I'd you want to shoot light weight and thus high vel. Pellets buy a Benjamin Discovery PCP, in .177 cal. Inexpensive accurate and as fast as you can accurately shoot with waisted, diavolo style pellets.(waisted)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5884
Location: P.G. B.C.
Just checked. D&LAirGuns has Benj. Discovery .22 in stock for $449.95.
Listed as 900fps. Can use CO2 as well as compressed air.
Slightly more expensive, but likely more accurate is the Umarex Gauntlet. Use compressed air or CO2 as well.
Mine shoots a variety of pellets very well indeed.
A new CO2 13oz. tank tank costs $25.95 locally filled and is good for 500 to 600 shots at close to compressed air power, at least 19fpe. & will shoot a much larger variety of pellets than about any Springer. It even shoots cheap Crosman pellets very accurately, that don't shoot as well under compressed air - go figure.
I think the local hardware store charges $5.00 to fill the 12oz tank.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:23 am 
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Location: GTA, ON
The 5 g RWS Hyper Max is alloy pellets, not lead. So for this different material, the pellet will be much harder than the soft lead. I was told due to the material and the .177 caliber size, it will need more power to be pushed through the rifling. So it's much different to shooting this vs shooting other light weight lead pellets.

My HW30 can't use this pellet, it will stuck in the barrel... So I can't put it to the light side for this reason...

Sent from my LG cellphone

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Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:27 am
Posts: 1061
Location: Thunder Bay,On.
The best "advice" amongst everything you read here...or anywhere else...is to never...ever use light weight or "hyper max" type of pellets in pal rated and especially magnum type spring/ram guns...myself I never use less than 7.4 grain in .177 and 13 gr. In .22 and as far as very heavy pellets go....(although I wouldn't use them myself)....you've been given the green light by more experienced shooters than I..but personally...I don't see the point of lobbing very heavy pellets down range at non pal speeds...or close to it....with a trajectory to match.. but to each his own I guess...experimentation is all part of the fun of shooting.... :D

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Last edited by MyCrosman on Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:48 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2631
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Scarb67 wrote:
Interesting. Once I get up and shooting, and there is no chrony to use, I may ask for a turn at yours?


You can. It's in Ontario right now. Person is dragging their feet on returning it.

Daryl wrote:
A new CO2 13oz. tank tank costs $25.95 locally filled


WOW. I paid that much and got a 5lb tank filled. Goto a place that services and fill fire extinguishers.



This is why I just shoot. I don't get into the fancy pellets, the science, the programs, what may or may not break a gun?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:47 am 
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Location: GTA, ON
leadslinger wrote:
This is why I just shoot. I don't get into the fancy pellets, the science, the programs, what may or may not break a gun?


Yep~ totally agreed ~

While you shot 10k pellets, you will find your own answer for every question you asked above. Don't think that's too much, you will put that many pellets down the range very soon ~

And being a shooter will be more happy than being a scientist IMO ~ [emoji38]

I remember OP also ask how far the pellet can go, right? Actually I don't worry about this as the pellet will drop, the speed will decrease, it's no use to think about if this pellet can fly 100 yards, 200 yards... At that far, even your pellet can hit the target, the energy/ power of the pellet can't do any damage, so, should I need to being headache about it?!

10 meters for a sub 500 non PAL gun, 50 meters for a full power springer. I believe that would be the maximum useful distance for an air gun...

Of course, if you mod your springer to 28FPE +, or using the moded super high power PCPs, you can try shooting longer distance.... I have no experience on that, you can get an answer from other gentlemen here ~

Cheers ~


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_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:26 pm
Posts: 27
Location: TO, ON.
Daryl wrote:
In MAGNUM rifles, which are generally the less expensive guns, stay away from light weight pellets or you will likely damage/break your spring and maybe damage the piston as well.
I thought that was plainly described.


Don't worry Daryl, I've been reading the advice and knowledge imparted. My original post was reguarding over weight pellet damage, yet you enlightened me by pointing out the question I didn't ask, which was damage from the other end of the spectrum.
In reply to YepYep's question why (or for what reason) I was trying to "select" a pellet. I was giving him situations that might occur or be pondered over time by inquiring minds, and that my question, as a person just entering the modern airgun market during SALES time of year... I was hoping to avoid going too far with ammo to try that might be on sale yet cost me in gun repair in the end. There is a range of ammo out there, and it may have real purpose or it may be there for some bragging rights only, and I was asking what limit might be on my guns mentioned.

As for distance shooting. Once again, there is light ammo out there and people are saying it travels faster, or it will give you more distance. So the question enters my head..."really is this true..?" others are stating how passing the sound barrier destablises a pellet and affects trajectory. So logically to me the lighter pellet might be faster and travel farther in a weaker spring gun (I see maybe not this Hypermax though), but in my more powerfull gun it might just go faster, break the sound barrier, destablise, take on a lot of drag then drop earlier than a heavier more stable pellet? So mention of that might have had to do with fishing for any real world experiences (if it was me who asked and not a mention by others..I forget).
Worrying about distance "needs", it isn't there for me airgun wise. My new interest in guns runs into centerfire guns as well. Airguns are just, for me, a little more relaxed atmosphere, or something. But don't worry, I will probably drive folks in those other forums to scratch their heads a bit too. :hsmash

I really do find the information this thread has to be very helpful.
Thanks to all the contributors!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
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Location: GTA, ON
The RWS Hyper Max is a good pellet though. It's expensive, however I think I bought 3 boxes so far and used one and a half...

It's the most 'powerful' pellet in my replicas which shoot below 400 fps. With it, I shot through the soup cans, not just made a dent, the first time ~ (in less than 5 meters )

But I stopped using it anymore when I get into more powerful and more accurate air guns and found it's too light to remain accurate in farther distance....

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 1675
Location: GTA, ON
And maybe we can think from the othet side, what air gun are you using or planned to buy?

Finding a pellet for a specific gun would be easier than discussing science ~ :wink:

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5884
Location: P.G. B.C.
Leadslinger, sorry for the misunderstanding.
At that Home Hardware store a brand new 12oz. tank off the shelf AND filled for you, costs $25.00. A fill of your
12oz. tank is $5.00.

The nice aspect about having a rifle that can be changed
back and forth from compressed air to C02, is that the C02 is quieter and makes more than enough power for indoor shooting.
The boys who did the video on switching to C02 on the Gauntlet noted he got 20fpe with C02.
THAT in itself is exciting for field rat shooting. 500 shots +
from one fill. Not having to go back to the truck (or quad) to top up the tank every 60 shots or so!

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Daryl


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