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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:45 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:58 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Baden, ON
I bought the HW44 in .22 and a hand pump from D&L. It arrived last week. I shot a couple clips the day I got it in the yard to try it out. I have to sight in the scope still. So far it is a fantastic pistol and capable of much more than me at this point lol.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:52 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:29 pm
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Location: New Brunswick
I have a similar pistol, an HW40 and I love it.
It’s a cheap.177 tack driver with only the iron sights.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:39 pm 
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pelsby: You'll have to explain that one to me. Speed & BC is all that determines trajectory in a pellet. Of course you have to assume shot horizontally, no wind, rain etc which I think is assumed. If a chosen 177 pell has better BC than the chosen 22 pell then at equal speed the 177 will win every time, regardless of weight or impact energy, ftlbs etc.
If they were shot in a vacuum then BC is removed from the equation and both a lead ball and cotton ball have the same trajectory. Or I could be high, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. Maybe I'm too high to know whether or not I am? ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:21 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
SureShot wrote:
I have a similar pistol, an HW40 and I love it.
It’s a cheap.177 tack driver with only the iron sights.
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The HW40 is a very good SSP, I have 2~ one newer generation HW40 and one older generation P3. Although it's a bit weak in power, about 400fps for .177, but super accurate! And you are right, a tack driver ~ However it's not cheap for these German made tack driver.... The P17 is much cheaper ~



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:34 pm 
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Location: Any Town ONTARIO
Here you go These graphs are both using RWS Hobby pellets @495 F.P.S. in .177 and .22 . I believe these are what are used as the standards to rate airguns in Canada by the regulators who do this . This is the fairest way to compare performance of two calibers where only the size is changing .The ballistic coefficient is can not be the same as this is also a size dependant attribute but the shape is identical . The ballistic coefficient is better on the .22 as it does retain more speed and energy at its endpoint by being of more mass . Assuming the same initial velocity you will see the larger bore outperforms the smaller one in every domain .


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:08 pm 
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Location: United States
pelsby: First time you said it was b/c of energy, but now you're cheatin w/ better BC ;) I knew I wasn't high!
I do wonder, now that you mention it, if a pellet like the two Hobby pells are identical except for the size. It seems to me that if they were identical then the mass increase should match the frontal area and therefore maintain the same BC. If so, then the 22 is hiding some extra lead in there. I'm just assuming the mass and area remain the same if all dimensions are equally scaled, but I can't see how it wouldn't. We can compare $ for $ too, like the 22 Hobby to some JSB 8.44. I think the JBS's BC is twice as good. Not that he'd notice at basement ranges, but maybe he has a massive underground bunker/basement? I'm drooling at the thought of a 100' basement...

I'll second the P17 like Yep Yep mentioned. They're probably the best deal in airguns, and if you really like it then get the HW40. I have three P17's. I didn't buy one for the longest time b/c I figured I'd get what I pay for like so many things I've been burned on, but this is an exception. They're a 3ftlb gun so you won't see 500, but 8gr will break 400. Mine made peak power w/ 13.43 JSB. I tried the 16.2gr and lost ~5%, as did 10.34. Slower that lighter ones, obviously, just sayin it's sweet spot is up there so it'll shoot a wide variety.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:03 pm 
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Chevota I was going to use your choices of pellets to represent this but the .177 JSB's have lessor B.C.'s than the .22 JSB's .So again the .22 would best the .177 .


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:05 pm 
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I did say I thought the 22's were cheating by being heavier for their size, so now you forced me to actually do some math, which I dislike....
So; a 22 has ~50% more frontal area than 177, so it would be safe to say 50% more weight is all that's allowed to make an equal scaled up size comparo as I described earlier. If you take a 7.0gr RWS Hobby and bump it by 50% it's 10.8gr, the but the 22 Hobby example you used is 11.8gr which explains it's better BC.
The JSB's, if you go by name like "Exact Heavy", are even further off as you mentioned, so we'll try to go by weight instead. The 7.44 Express and 8.44 Exact come out to 11.85 & 12.66gr, so nothing to compare them to. Go to 10.34gr and you get 15.51gr which is still lighter than the 15.9gr 22, yet they have the same BC per your example. So the 177 actually wins since it's lighter. Can't really compare the 13.43 JSB b/c it's not really a round nose, at least not like the others. It's more flattish for some reason which sucks b/c that pell wt is ideal in 177 magnum springers, but for some BS design decision nobody can understand, that pellet is seriously flawed.
You can compare others too, like a Crosman Premier in 177 is 7.9gr so 22 should be 11.85gr, but the 22 is 14.35. The 177 Baracuda is 10.5 so 22 should be 15.75, but it's >20. So across the board the 22's are heavier for their size and that's not a fair comparo.

There's also the fact that BC changes w/ speed, so to truly compare you'd also need to shoot all of them at the same speed. So far I've never seen any BC tests done at equal vel. Typically the 177 is at higher velocity b/c that's what they do, and higher vel = more drag and thus less BC. So in real world BC testing, like your example, the 22 has both wt and speed advantages in the test. Despite these advantages the 22 did not win imo, per my example. If you want to find some others that are closer in wt that would be great, but odds are they will be of different design and again not really comparable. I think that one JSB example is as close as you're gunna get. Now that I think about it, I think the 15.9gr has a little better dome shape than the 10.34. If so it's another point for 177, but I'll try to find the one and only tin of 15.9 I have and compare.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:06 pm 
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Location: Caronport, Saskatchewan
All technicalities aside, if you are shooting outside at cans or clay disks and have a Canadian Crosman 1377 and 1322 to choose from, if you're more than 20 yards away you're going to want the 22, much more fun, and more satisfying to see the cans jump and clays explode. =)



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:19 pm 
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Location: Southern Gulf Islands, Beautiful British Columbia, Canada
Flat trajectory is one thing, accuracy and consistency another. I’d second the recommendation of a PP700SA in .22 - easily the most accurate and predictable pistol in my humble collection. As demonstrated by ChairGun results, trajectory and associated ballistics can be calculated and compensated for, random velocity and lesser barrel designs cannot.

Just my two cents.

Cheers!

Avianmanor

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:36 pm 
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Location: Southern Gulf Islands, Beautiful British Columbia, Canada
Got a little shooting in with the Artemis (Snowpeak) PP700-SA .22 today .......... 3/4 inch groups @ 25 yards benchrest JSB Exact 18 grain. FT, Plinking, Limited Pest Control -pellets consistently hit the target, regardless of trajectory curve. This is a regulated PCP pistol, and the benefits are quite apparent; maintaining velocity is critical to accuracy. Hope this helps in the OP's quest for an accurate multi-duty pistol.

Cheers!

Avianmanor


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:52 am
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Location: Caronport, Saskatchewan
Very good!

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