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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:32 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Edmonton
Good day all,

Anybody here tried this set up?

I am very intrigued by this scope. Short and light. Doesn't look half bad. Very practical power range (3-12, really, all I ever use is 10x and occasionally zoom out to 5x for more holdover). The practical if not a little too fine scb2 mil reticle. Annnnnd, the very, very wide field of view. But of course, the only but very significant con of having the very short eye relief. I don't own and absolutely have no inclination to own a PCP anytime soon, so it's just my springers. Read mixed stories varying from it being all good, to getting a noticeable but not too uncomfortable bump on the eyebrow, to getting bruises, to outright getting cut and requiring stitches.

Anybody tried it and how'd it work out for you?

Thanks for the feedback!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
I don't see how the gun could move so much that the scope would hit you, but I guess anything is possible. My only real concern is will it survive the gun. I've never broken a scope but the way I see it is I wouldn't put more on $ on it than I'm willing to lose. Many scopes have warranties but I'm wary b/c on many, if not most things I've had w/ a guarantee or warranty they find some way to weazel out of it. Like the last claim I attempted was a desktop fan that lasted a couple months; they'd honor it if I pay to ship to to them + they wanted $10 to ship it back to me. The fan cost $10 new...
Or this Star Wars drone I bought, which lost a motor and crashed hard. Not covered b/c it had been crashed.... Wth am I supposed to do, use "the force" to catch it? So bs like that, which I'm sure we all have stories about...
If you insist on getting it then I'd do what I can to reduce the violent piston impact to minimize scope stress, which I believe is why I've never broken one.
I minimize all the leaks, bump compression ratio and use heavier pellets which imo makes a huge diff. I can explain how if you're interested, just tell me what gun you want to put it on, caliber and power level.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:32 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Edmonton
Hi Chevota!

Ideally, it'll sit on a .177 hw98. It's just the best hunting/field springer I have IMO and having this light scope on it just plays to the strengths of the 98. The 98 has a vortek 12fpe kit in it already but it does still recoil (but not as much as back when it was a stock 15/16fpe). If that doesn't work out, I was thinking of putting it on a 97kt. Buuuuutttt, although very accurate, it's not the field gun that the 98 (just a bit heavy to carry around all day). The 97 internals are in the process of getting delrin buttons, transfer port widened and getting a lighter Ti piston so recoil should be even lower. And if that doesn't work out too, it can go on another springer with a sleeved comptube and skirtless piston (very low recoil/surge, almost PCP-like). This one, I'm 99% confident will work out, although I'd really hope not to go there as this rifle's even heavier to carry around the field. Really, it's more a bench/target gun. Did all I can to smooth out all their shot cycles but the 98 still has the harshest cycle among them. And the 98's the only one I can't get fully tuned being a break barrel. The tuner wants the entire action mailed to him to open up the transfer port and deburr, polish and button the internals. Underlevers have the transfer port on the comptube so it's not a problem mailing that out as pneumatic strut repair job or something. He's in the UK. I'd have to ship the whole action out... forget about it.

The UK forums say the scope touches your nose and eyebrow when shooting and those gents across the pond shoot at sub 12fpe and some still advise against it (but some say it's ok...o_0?). Just adds to the confusion. And no worries on the warranty. I'd be getting it from airgunsource. Those guys know how to take care of customers.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:55 pm
Posts: 6845
Location: Rocky Mtn Hse Alberta
Imo the scope hitting the shooter is so much baloney. How is a gun that the most violent action is the piston kicking it forward, going to come back and give you a scope eye? I don't buy it one bit.
Enjoy that 98 eh!
Cheers

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Walter


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:32 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Edmonton
Hi Walter,

Agreed, especially at 12fpe.

Maybe someone mounted one on one of those "recoilless" Diana sidelevers. Lol. More than likely it's just MTC legally covering their assets for someone's Darwinian behavior.

Best regards!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: United States
The gun is pushed aft when it launches the piston fwd, which is virtually identicle to the gentle recoil of a firearm. Then when the piston hits the breech end it's a sharp and violent high-G impact that knocks the gun fwd as if hit with a hammer, because basically that's what's happening. This is where the term double recoil comes from. Many/most think it's the "double" part that breaks stuff, as if parts being shook in two directions is the problem but it's only the piston impact that breaks stuff. The initial one is harmless and mild, the second is basically the same amt of energy but all at once, which is why it cause scopes or mounts to slide aft, or break lenses free and break reticle wires. You may already know this but just in case...
So if your eye is touching the scope then yes, it'll push into you, but I've never seen a scope with zero eye relief. Seems odd they'd make such a scope, I mean why would they because most guns would not be able to use it, and even if they could, why would they want to? I assume it also means you have to mount the scope further aft, which may require a special mount? If so I spoze I'd use this one; https://tinyurl.com/yajzzpyc I'd drill/tap for a couple extra screws so it won't slide. Speaking of that, many mounts come with a stop pin, which is fine for a cheap gun but I refuse to use one on a nice gun because they damage the hole they go into. This is why I'd put extra screws on it, but another drawback to using a pin is you have to put the mount in that one position unless you drill a new hole. So instead I use stronger mounts, and if needed I add screws to make them even more so.

Regarding the tuning, you can do that yourself and I can send you the how-to info if you'd like.
As for the Xfer port, I do NOT suggest enlarging it on purpose. I enlarge many of them but the reason is to clean them up because they're rough inside. So if the port is not that bad, like I'm guessing yours are, you can simply sand them. The chinese stuff is nasty so I have to drill out a size or two larger (sometimes three larger) to clean up the mess, then sand it. For me three sizes, in # drills, is taking the oem B18 port of .125" to .140", so imagine how nasty a hole has to be that even .136" wasn't enough.
The port size is part of a balanced system just like the intake manifold on an engine, so if you go bigger w/o having more displacement you're hurting power. In my case it's a give/take, I get better flow since it's smooth, but lose compression and increase piston impact. Since I tune the gun, at least the way I do it, I get the compression back and some. Ideally, if I bothered, I'd hog out the port an put a nice new insert in of the oem size. Fyi the oem size is not always ideal, even the factory sometimes uses too big a port.
The 98 should have a 3mm port (~.118"), and I'd imagine you could go to .125" without any loss in power but any increase in size will increase the G's of piston impact.
The port on the 97, if I recall correctly, is too big so you're just making bad into worse. My memory on that port is fuzzy at best, but at the very least I don't believe it's too small. Depends on how much bigger you go too, so hopefully this guy is just cleaning it up like I do, but I'm kinda worried.
People have asked me to tune their guns but I tellem shipping would be the deal breaker. I shipped one gun a few states over some 5+yrs ago and I was shocked how much it cost. I can't imagine to the UK, plus I've heard CA rates are higher than US.
chevota at hotmail and I'll send that, which explains tons of stuff, including how to make the tool to sand the port. The buttons you can do yourself as well, and I like to think my way is better than machined in versions. At the very least look at the info and decide for yourself.
On the 98 you may want to dry lube the cocking shoe and the parts it slides on. When cocking the gun and you're mid stroke or so, look at the cocking linkage angle. Then calculate the force on it which is easily >100lbs. All that force is on the shoe pushing on the thin contact patch of the cocking slot where it rides. So I prep the surfaces, impregnate with dry lube, then make sure it always has grease. I got some special grease for parts like that which is extra sticky and extra thick, so it'll work better and last longer. That spot is the highest friction point in the gun, so at the very least I'd grease it often. The 97 has it even worse, but hopefully your guy fixes it?
Fyi I'll share my story fo why I'll never shoot a side/under lever gun again. Aside from the cost, weight, pita loading and power loss, one almost disfigured my fingers when the breech slammed closed a micro-second before my fingers were in there. It was a Diana 52 btw, and I had not modded it yet, it was new with just a few shots thru it. I then put a pencil in the breech and pulled the trigger to see what would happen, and it basically it was as if it had been smashed under a large rock. It was splinter city with more splinters flying and the edge of the comp tube acts like a shear to ensure no bones survive. It's as if it was built to break and disfigure fingers. Yes it has an anti-bear trap device, not it doesn't work. It may have on paper, but the rounded teeth of the catch allowed the assy to skip right over them. Hard to explain but if you saw the part it would make sense. So aside from all the non-finger mangling issues, I see no point to them, but add that and forget it! I'm saying it for you to be wary, and like any safety; do not expect it to work! Basically I'd hold the cocking lever with one hand, or arm, or however so it can't do that.


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