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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:26 pm 
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Hi Guys! Looking at the Diana Trailscout trigger, with its two adjustment screws made me realize how easy it would be to duplicate on the Artemis CR600W. I copied the Trailscout trigger, drilling two holes like the Trailscout trigger shown below, and tapped the one trigger pin hole on the CR600W frame the same as the Trailscout to allow the first stage adjustment with the stock on. However after putting it together I found that if the first stage adjustment screw is turned in to shorten the first stage, that changes the contact point of thr second stage, making for a much creepier and heavier second stage. Leaving the first stage so the screw is not protruding gives a much crisper and lighter second stage. That made me realize that changing the pin for two grub screws is not needed at all and that everyone who owns a CR600W already has the one screw needed, all they need is to drill another 2.5mm or 3/32 hole behind the existing adjustment hole, and drill it right through both sections of the trigger, and tap it m3 to then take their existing adjustment screw and stick it in the new hole to give them the 2nd stage adjustment that makes a nice light two stage trigger. With this set up there is no need to replace the one trigger pin with grub screws and all three existing CR600W trigger pins are used.
Here is some pics of the modded CR600W trigger compared to the Diana trigger.
As you can see I don't have a drill press and I didn't quite end up perfectly straight but you get the idea 8).
The first pic is the Diana trigger. The circled part is what we want to duplicate, drilling that hole(s). The others are the trigger I drilled and the grub screw that was in the trigger in the front hole that we now remove and install from the opposite side so the bottom of the screw engages the sear. You can see how the hex wrench goes through the first hole making the trigger adjustable while installed on the gun.
Hope that helps someone wishing they had the improved Diana trigger! If you dont have a m3 tap, if you wish, (and are willing to put up with my possible slightly off center hole), I can drill one for you and send it for a few dollars, and you can send me yours in swap. I'll take a pic before I send so you can decide if it's acceptable or not. 8)ImageImageImageImageImage

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:33 pm 
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Here is a pic of how you can adjust it even with the trigger guard on the gun, though it is a bit more awkward but not bad at all. Image

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:49 pm 
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That is so nice, Wes! Thanks for sharing.

Just thought what if we do not drill right thru the trigger but only drill and tap the top half of the C on the trigger blade piece. The grub screw can still be installed from top down.

The down side of this is perhaps the smoothness of the trigger maybe less due to the head of the grub screw touching the sear being less smooth than the tip. Also, trigger adjustment can only be done with the trigger guard off and the stopping pin removed.

I intend to do this mod when I return home in a week or so from my trip.

Thanks,

Tom

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:06 pm 
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Hi Tom, thanks, and yep you are right, though I think it's probably worth it to drill through both and install from the trigger blade side.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:56 am 
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tom_ke888 wrote:
That is so nice, Wes! Thanks for sharing.



The down side of this is perhaps the smoothness of the trigger maybe less due to the head of the grub screw touching the sear being less smooth than the tip.

A cone or radiusd grub screw works much better and get them cheap on ebay.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:28 am 
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Ok great

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:54 am 
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Well done! I will suggest that you mod that screw so it has a centered point for contact for the sear. I believe this is what Walther is saying. As you have it now the imperfect edge of the screw tip is what is making contact, so as you turn the screw the actual adjustment will not follow perfectly since the edge is not perfect. Plus, depending on the angle of the hole you drilled and/or the tip of the screw, it could be pushing on the sear from one side of the screw and then the other as you pull the trig. Another geometry issue is if the side of the screw touching the sear is closest to the oem screw then it's making the felt difference between stage one and two smaller. Since you're drilling it by hand I'd imagine that geometry could easily make one trigger very different from the next due to the aforementioned reason.
Shaping the screw so only the center touches the sear will solve these problems and have several advantages. Like it won't have a sharp edge that could potentially dig into the sear making a rough and/or catchy spot. If that edge is not strong then it'll flatten with use and throw out your adjustment.
Your screw looks hardened, and your sear is no doubt hardened but ideally you don't want the screw to be as hard or harder, especially if the screw has an edge because you don't want it damaging the sear. If it were me I'd check hardness and if needed I'd soften that screw or find a softer one. If the screw is scraping the sear during movement then all the more reason to worry. If it is scraping I'd make the very tip a bit less pointy to make a bigger contact patch so its smoother and has less friction. Plus more surface area means it'll last longer. I've seen oem adj screws with a small contact patch that over time have flattened quite a bit on that spot. When that happens you have the same problem I first mentioned which is any adjustment made from there will be very inconsistent.
Here's a pix of a screw I modded for a Crosman trigger. Sorry it's such a crappy pix, it was taken before I had a good digi camera... It's centered for accuracy in adjustment and well rounded at the very tip so it has a good contact patch for minimal wear. That fat contact patch along with good lube will also minimize friction for long life and smoother action. To do this I chucked the screw into a drill, then while spinning it I use a Dremel to shape it. Basically a redneck lathe but it works great. It is an M3 x.5 screw, but softer material than yours. It was Phillips but I cut the head off and cut a slot in it for adjustment. I also have some teeny little screwdrivers that fit inside the trigger guard.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:37 am 
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Thanks, good points, and important to consider.
These grub screws are somewhat rounded on the bottom and were the oem adjustment screw, but one like you and Walther are describing would be better I'm sure. And a drill press would really help. 8)
Trying to do anything to the oem screw will be a bit of a challenge since it's so small, but as Walther says, ebay is a friend. Time will tell and it will be good to see what wearing happens.
I've done two now and both are very much nicer than before and seemed the same to me. I started from the bottom of course so that helps to keep things close, but not completely identical I'm sure.
It's a bit strange why Diana uses a flat bottom screw, unless maybe they were worried about wearing a groove in the sear.

Thanks for your input. I should get some longer screws that can be polished and rounded and see what difference it makes.

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Last edited by wesb2007 on Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:54 am 
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After thinking about the different points Chevota mentioned I'm almost thinking the oem screw is actually fairly decent. It is not pointed so it won't be as likely to dig in to the sear. It is partly rounded and doesn't have a sharp edge. How everything wears is the big unknown. The sear is hardened but not as hard as the screw I'm sure.
Since it's such a small screw I'm a bit worried that any further rounding might not really be a help but make a narrower wear point. Here is the pic again for reference.
Image
My understanding is that this screw is not what is giving the sear the last push to fire, it is simply creating a long first stage so that the edge of the flat on the trigger hits the sear on a nice angle making it crisp and light. So for the purpose I think oem screw is fine. Diana has installed a screw that is totally flat with a sharp edge. I'll leave it to others to comment on the pros and cons of that, though a more rounded edge would seem better to me.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:26 am 
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Those long Diana screws look rather easy to to round , by chucking in a drill .
I bought a mixed pack of grub screws with various lengths off of amazon, the long ones very easy to chuck in a dremel etc to round over and polish.
Chevota's pic looks perfect to me for a consistent release point.

These rifles are so inexpensive that honestly I think Diana is just selling these as a cash grab as you can testify by them stealing your market share from spa.

Imo They don't put that much thought into them. Imo it is mostly people from forums that they have drawn their " upgrades "from.
They was a guy on south african forum that has be Adding the second setscrew as a service for people through the mail . Note it also works on the cp2 etc triggers.

It's spa that executes the job with less than ideal outcomes.
Fine with me, I am actually very happy they do that so I can get a cheaper gun and have the fun of fine tuning it myself. ala crosman style
I am using stainless grub screws which are softer than carbon steel it seems to slide very nicely.

**Thank you Wes for all you do with the products you sell.
I've never seen an airgun retailer do what you do with your products before the customer gets them and even after with the research you put in.
Keep up the good work
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:33 pm 
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Location: Guelph, Ontario
walther wrote:
Those long Diana screws look rather easy to to round , by chucking in a drill .
I bought a mixed pack of grub screws with various lengths off of amazon, the long ones very easy to chuck in a dremel etc to round over and polish.
Chevota's pic looks perfect to me for a consistent release point.

These rifles are so inexpensive that honestly I think Diana is just selling these as a cash grab as you can testify by them stealing your market share from spa.

Imo They don't put that much thought into them. Imo it is mostly people from forums that they have drawn their " upgrades "from.
They was a guy on south african forum that has be Adding the second setscrew as a service for people through the mail . Note it also works on the cp2 etc triggers.

It's spa that executes the job with less than ideal outcomes.
Fine with me, I am actually very happy they do that so I can get a cheaper gun and have the fun of fine tuning it myself. ala crosman style
I am using stainless grub screws which are softer than carbon steel it seems to slide very nicely.

**Thank you Wes for all you do with the products you sell.
I've never seen an airgun retailer do what you do with your products before the customer gets them and even after with the research you put in.
Keep up the good work
[emoji4][emoji4]
Wes is the greatest isn't he? I second Walther's comments above. Keep up the great work Wes.

Tom

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:57 pm 
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Thanks very much to both of you and thanks to all those that post your upgrades and amazing modifications making these guns better. Yes I think the Diana trigger screws would be very easy to round over, and a long grub screw even easier to stick in a drill and use a file on to round. Thanks for the suggestions.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:07 pm 
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The only wear I was concerned about is if the screw has a sharp edge that would dig into the sear. Set screws are usually hard and usually have a bit of an edge, but it all depends on where they were made. I've seen them where that edge could cut you... Once rounded it'll be fine. If by chance wear was an issue, like if the sear was soft, then I'd just make the radius big, like 1/4". Basically you could make the radius as big as you want as long as the edge doesn't touch. If wear was that much an issue I'd just use a brass screw, or tip the screw w/ something soft. Of course the larger the radius the less accurate the screws adjustment will be, but I think that's just me being overly anal. If done in a drill I'm sure it'll be more than good enough. If done w/o turning it in something, like just filing on it by hand, then I'd go w/ a smaller radius. You get what I'm saying right? About how an uneven tip can alter the setting?
Since your screw is so short my first thought would be to use a Torx or Allen wrench to hold it, then chuck that assy in a drill. Normally an Allen would be too loose but I often mod Allen wrenches so they fit better b/c I've had too many round out on me. I take one a size up and sand w/ my Dremel to a perfect fit. I prefer to use a Torx bit they're usually tapered and I can simply shave the tip down until it's a perfect fit. Ideally it's a perfect fit but optionally I can tap it down in there for a tight fit, like I'd want if I were using a drill to sand the tip...

So this CR600W/PR900W gun and the Diana Scout are one in the same? Is the Diana nicer at all or just has the name Diana on it? And what do you think of it??? I've been meaning to get a cheap pcp in 177 for, well, I don't have a good reason but this looks interesting.


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