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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:32 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Edmonton
Just think it's interesting discussion.

So while searching around the web on how to be a better springer shooter, I came across this gentleman on YT that said he doesn't like the artillery hold and doesn't use the artillery hold. He just "knows his gun". He then proceeded to produce what looks like a one inch group at 25 yds. Practically a kill zone on small game every single time. Impressive! Although it didn't show on camera how he held his rifle, he mentions in the video where he feels the recoil the most is about halfway of the comp tube and I think it's implied, he decided to keep his hold as far away from that point as possible. Then it clicked. Just two days ago, my sister and brother-in-law, who're taking kyudo/japanese archery classes, showed me a video. And at one point, it showed how the bow was is supposed to be held about a third of the way up from an end, at one of its nodes, not at the middle. Doing this reduces felt vibration and aids in accuracy. Maybe this southern gunner is on to something here. Maybe it's like he said, after thousands of shots, he knows his gun inside out and is probably holding it at a node. It's basically two schools of thought where in any powerplant that is oscillating in nature or really any system where vibrations are involved, you either let the system alone to vibrate freely or hold it at a node/dead spot where vibration is practically zero. In fairness, he said it took him a long time to learn his gun and the AH is probably much easier to learn for most everyone else. Not to mention there are so many models of springers out there and a lot of those nowhere near stock anymore. But it's nice to know that there could be an alternative to the AH, paint roller rests and sliding actions. Just wondering though, are these nodes always a third of the way from either end of the length of the mainspring? Maybe some PCP shooters who put tuning rings on their barrels can chime in if they have theirs about a third of the way from either end or how that thing works.

Anyway, here's the two videos.

He mentions feeling the vibration at 8:42 of this vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joJ85Qrt4j8

And the kyudo video about nodes at 9:32:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZXPEXcLbu0


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 2163
Location: GTA, ON
It makes some sense as about 1/3 the way is usually we called the Extreme and Mean Ratio, the Golden Ratio, 1.618 something... It's really a magical spot...

But due to the different length and stock design of a rifle, and the length of our arms and body size... You need to find a gun to fit your body to handle it like that... I think ppl usually only care about a comfortable spot to use the sights and scopes to hold the rifle and not a specific spot on the fore arm of the stock to hold the gun...

But if we can make this two spots as one, and use artillery hold at the same time... Will it increase the accuracy??

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6084
Location: P.G. B.C.
All groups, fired with my HW98 .22 at 25 yards.
Note, all the groups with the 19.09gr. pellet were under
an inch, with the single Crossman 14.43gr. HP's group opening that up
to over an inch.

The bottom right group was with the artillery hold, but with the 19.09gr.
Barracuda hunter Extreme pellet as are the others.
All the target groups where hand held middle of forend, back of hand on the bag
except for the bottom right group.

I suspect the artillery hold might work for some guns, but it does not work with this
one, nor my HW97. Both of these high power rifles prefer a more standard "hold".


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:32 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Edmonton
@YepYep That would be nice if it worked. Certainly worth experimenting on. It would've been nice if the first video showed how that rifle was held. I'll try to shoot my rifles and feel for a spot with lest vibration. May be tough to find that though almost all my guns have been detuned to sub 12fpe. This will probably help in magnum springers the most as they recoil way more but again, this is just conjecture. Will try it at the range next time. Currently testing a tuned gun, have sorted some pellets so they're all within 0.1 grain of each other, and another batch that's within 0.05 grain of each other. We'll see.:-)

@Daryl Very interesting.... so your groups opened up with the artillery hold. Reading articles online makes it seem the AH is the be all, end all way of holding an springer but it seems other people have been successful not using it. If only we knew how and why. This really makes me want to experiment now. I'm really looking forward to see if there really are dead spots along the rifle where crosswise recoil is at a minimum. It'd be nice if we have an alternative to the artillery hold. Just wish there was a reasonable indoor range near me to factor out wind.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:15 am
Posts: 3593
Location: Edmonton
https://phoenixrange.ca/

:D


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6084
Location: P.G. B.C.
Wow - that's amazing - indoor range in Edmonton.

Ivan- you are right, experimentation is what it takes. It is also actually possible, that with a given pellet, a different hold
might show better accuracy than what shoots well with a "given" pellet.

If you've watched, Si Pittaway and Davey shooting, you will notice they do not use the artillery hold, yet shoot absolutely
wonderful groups in their multi-staged springers. Interesting, that they both like the HW's.

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