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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 4:07 pm
Posts: 158
Cool do thy got gas springs and tho will work on a benji?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:03 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island BC
Ravenairgun wrote:
Cool do thy got gas springs and tho will work on a benji?

Ah no


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:09 am 
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Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Ravenairgun wrote:
Cool do thy got gas springs and tho will work on a benji?


Life lesson, sometimes it better just to get the proper part, then trying to make things work. Gun came with a spring, put a spring back in. If you only get a years worth of use. Polish/square up the spring ends, slap one in, and carry on. It's only 20$. For the price of the gas piston conversion, you could have bought like 5 springs. One less variable to go wrong. Like anything they break.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:40 pm 
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Location: Caronport, Saskatchewan
Ahh, you guys are being too hard on this fellow, 8). Can't blame a guy for trying something new and looks like a pretty handy fellow that likes Tinkering on things. I'm sure it'll all work out in the end. Lots of good learning anyway.
Regards,
Wes

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

_________________
Website: https://airgunarcheryfun.ca/


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:27 pm 
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wesb2007 wrote:
Ahh, you guys are being too hard on this fellow, 8). Can't blame a guy for trying something new and looks like a pretty handy fellow that likes Tinkering on things. I'm sure it'll all work out in the end. Lots of good learning anyway.
Regards,
Wes

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk


Oh


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:56 pm
Posts: 174
Location: Sidney, BC.
Buy a good well made airgun spring.....Maccarri makes the best in my opinion. KEN.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2945
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
wesb2007 wrote:
Ahh, you guys are being too hard on this fellow, 8). Can't blame a guy for trying something new and looks like a pretty handy fellow that likes Tinkering on things. I'm sure it'll all work out in the end. Lots of good learning anyway.
Regards,
Wes

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk


I don't think we are bring hard on him. It's a life lesson that sometimes its better to do things right the first time. Then try to adapt something. Because short of throwing in another seal. He will be in the same situation. Then he has no way of testing the pressure of the strut. So no way of knowing what is wrong. Too many variables.

Definition of insanity is doing things over and over and expecting a different result.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 4:07 pm
Posts: 158
Lol its the tube i over sanded it im almost 100% im going to buy a new tube $35 and i tryed the squirt bottle soap method on the ram.and didnt notice anything. I also have irwin grips that i can compress the ram with. When i did it still takes extreme preasure to compress it. So im almost certain its the tube. I also switched to gas ram because its more practicle for me i shoot the break barrel like its a MG with 100 round drum. Lol


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:53 am 
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KEN. wrote:
Buy a good well made airgun spring.....Maccarri makes the best in my opinion. KEN.


Man of few words Ken


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1287
Location: United States
Without seeing your tube I can't say if you over sanded it, but I kinda doubt it. Imo the only way you could've hurt it is if you put a little speed bump in it since the brake hone can't reach all the way in. The seal does reach all the way so it would hit the spot where the hone stopped. Imo this would likely damage the delicate sealing edge of the seal which I'd assume would be visible damage. This is why I make the home made hones, they reach all the way and some. I'd imagine you could see the point where the brake hone stopped, assuming it actually made said speed bump. All I can say is from experience sanding these tubes, and brake parts, it's not all that easy to remove a significant amt of material and it would take a significant amt to create that bump. With the hone I make I'd imagine you could hone it for hours and not harm it at all, depending on the grit used. If say 320 I'd say all day w/ no damage and barely any material removal. I use a cordless drill to do mine and often kill the battery doing it, however long that takes I forget.

Btw, I didn't say moly paste sux, it has it's place, it's just that imo it's place is not in the compression tube b/c it's too thick. The seal has to plow thru all that stuff so the thicker it is the more it slows it down, and if cold it's even worse. It isn't a big deal really, I just like to use, or mix, lubes that will work best and/or make peak power. The thickest I use is bearing grease, the non-sticky kind, mixed with dry lube which thins it. It makes a paste similar in consistency to warm sour cream so it's easier to plow thru. I usually mix in motor oil to make it even thinner, and sometimes I only use motor oil and dry lube. And as mentioned I once used only dry lube but that leaves you open to rust, plus a little oil helps it seal just like oil in a 2-stroke eng does.
Note; the B18 doesn't need nearly as much piston to tube lube protection as many other guns, and if you button the piston it barely has any need for lube at all. I'd imagine if buttoned then a couple drops of thin motor oil spread over the tube for rust protection is all it needs. So using moly paste is not only hurting power, it's way overkill. The pistons lube needs vary drastically, so a gun like a FWB 124 is likely better off with moly paste if the owner is unwilling to button it. The NP2 is another design that needs buttons, which they installed at the factory. If they hadn't the guns would likely seize up very quickly. Problem is the oem NP2 buttons are iffy and imo the top one should be redone, but that's another story.
The only place I can see where moly paste might be useful is the barrel pivot, meaning the barrel bolt itself. That is a higher friction area that needs lube, but it's also very strong and resistant to wear so I think a drop of motor oil would probably be enough. I use bearing grease b/c being thicker doesn't hurt anything, and grease stays put longer so it's pretty much for life. So moly paste is fine there. The highest stress point is likely the two pivot points in the cocking linkage, which are easy to oil but not so easy to grease. They seem to hold up pretty well considering many don't lube them at all, but try to let a drop of good thick motor oil soak into them now and then.
I still believe your spring has leaked, but I'm not sure looking for a leak will work. I believe most leak with use, if that's your case you'd have to cycle it over and over under water or w/ the end soaked in dish soap. You can try, just don't get your hopes up. Also; the inside of the spring is bare steel and it will hold water in the guts, which means rust. So you'll have to figure out how to get all the water out. If the rust creeps under the sealing edge of the seal you're done... Meaning the outer sealing edge, not the shaft side. Any water that gets in it will go right to that sealing edge btw. So what I'd do is oil it first, then experiment. Then tap it hard against something hard and heavy like a vice, anvil, big pipe wrench or even a concrete floor. Tap the tip of the shaft against whatever to knock the water out. Then I'd soak the guts w/ motor oil and tap again. Water is heavier so more tapping will force the oil in deeper and displace any remaining water. And of course being coating in oil is a good thing so you can just leave it that way. Pellgun oil is easier on rubber parts so that's likely better for it, but I use syn motor oil.
The power of the gun and power of the spring are pretty much directly related, so if you lost 25% power it'll equate to ~25% psi loss. If you have a bathroom scale you can check, which I believe I mentioned b4, so I'm guessing you don't have said scale?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 4:07 pm
Posts: 158
I have a bathroom scale yes. So if i undersrand what your saying corrextly i can use irwin grips clamp the ram against the scale and compress then it will give me a weight? Pretty smart if thats what you mean or if that works. Also i used an extender on the hone so i was getting full strokes through the tube did it 100x brouggt it to 730 and quickly droppes to 690 then 680 as it wasnt diesiling as much. Currently shooting 675... imo i think its the tube because after sanding it lost fps... has fresh seals breach and piston...my pelgun oil says on the bottle not for break barrels...going to try the ram n scale...what should the weight be if its.not leaking? Also going to try to reduce oil applied to piston...you might be on to somthing...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:52 pm
Posts: 7208
Location: Vancouver Island BC
Chevota wrote:
Without seeing your tube I can't say if you over sanded it, but I kinda doubt it. Imo the only way you could've hurt it is if you put a little speed bump in it since the brake hone can't reach all the way in. The seal does reach all the way so it would hit the spot where the hone stopped. Imo this would likely damage the delicate sealing edge of the seal which I'd assume would be visible damage. This is why I make the home made hones, they reach all the way and some. I'd imagine you could see the point where the brake hone stopped, assuming it actually made said speed bump. All I can say is from experience sanding these tubes, and brake parts, it's not all that easy to remove a significant amt of material and it would take a significant amt to create that bump. With the hone I make I'd imagine you could hone it for hours and not harm it at all, depending on the grit used. If say 320 I'd say all day w/ no damage and barely any material removal. I use a cordless drill to do mine and often kill the battery doing it, however long that takes I forget.

Btw, I didn't say moly paste sux, it has it's place, it's just that imo it's place is not in the compression tube b/c it's too thick. The seal has to plow thru all that stuff so the thicker it is the more it slows it down, and if cold it's even worse. It isn't a big deal really, I just like to use, or mix, lubes that will work best and/or make peak power. The thickest I use is bearing grease, the non-sticky kind, mixed with dry lube which thins it. It makes a paste similar in consistency to warm sour cream so it's easier to plow thru. I usually mix in motor oil to make it even thinner, and sometimes I only use motor oil and dry lube. And as mentioned I once used only dry lube but that leaves you open to rust, plus a little oil helps it seal just like oil in a 2-stroke eng does.
Note; the B18 doesn't need nearly as much piston to tube lube protection as many other guns, and if you button the piston it barely has any need for lube at all. I'd imagine if buttoned then a couple drops of thin motor oil spread over the tube for rust protection is all it needs. So using moly paste is not only hurting power, it's way overkill. The pistons lube needs vary drastically, so a gun like a FWB 124 is likely better off with moly paste if the owner is unwilling to button it. The NP2 is another design that needs buttons, which they installed at the factory. If they hadn't the guns would likely seize up very quickly. Problem is the oem NP2 buttons are iffy and imo the top one should be redone, but that's another story.
The only place I can see where moly paste might be useful is the barrel pivot, meaning the barrel bolt itself. That is a higher friction area that needs lube, but it's also very strong and resistant to wear so I think a drop of motor oil would probably be enough. I use bearing grease b/c being thicker doesn't hurt anything, and grease stays put longer so it's pretty much for life. So moly paste is fine there. The highest stress point is likely the two pivot points in the cocking linkage, which are easy to oil but not so easy to grease. They seem to hold up pretty well considering many don't lube them at all, but try to let a drop of good thick motor oil soak into them now and then.
I still believe your spring has leaked, but I'm not sure looking for a leak will work. I believe most leak with use, if that's your case you'd have to cycle it over and over under water or w/ the end soaked in dish soap. You can try, just don't get your hopes up. Also; the inside of the spring is bare steel and it will hold water in the guts, which means rust. So you'll have to figure out how to get all the water out. If the rust creeps under the sealing edge of the seal you're done... Meaning the outer sealing edge, not the shaft side. Any water that gets in it will go right to that sealing edge btw. So what I'd do is oil it first, then experiment. Then tap it hard against something hard and heavy like a vice, anvil, big pipe wrench or even a concrete floor. Tap the tip of the shaft against whatever to knock the water out. Then I'd soak the guts w/ motor oil and tap again. Water is heavier so more tapping will force the oil in deeper and displace any remaining water. And of course being coating in oil is a good thing so you can just leave it that way. Pellgun oil is easier on rubber parts so that's likely better for it, but I use syn motor oil.
The power of the gun and power of the spring are pretty much directly related, so if you lost 25% power it'll equate to ~25% psi loss. If you have a bathroom scale you can check, which I believe I mentioned b4, so I'm guessing you don't have said scale?


Is this for real


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 4:07 pm
Posts: 158
Whats wrong?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:52 pm
Posts: 7208
Location: Vancouver Island BC
Well tune your gun as you see fit you were give good advice .And a lot of crap you will figure it out


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2945
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Chev, if the piston is slowing down, your using too much paste. Little goes a long way. Your not painting a deck, or applying make up on a rodeo clown.

As a diesel mechanic I find it funny that moly paste too thick in the cold, but wheel bearing grease isnt? Engines also have more than 1 seal. 2 metal compression and a oil seal, is a standard. Which is design to withstand the heat. Not airguns.

Pell gun oil isnt good for spring airguns due to its motor oil and diesels. Petroleum products have no place in a compression tube.


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