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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 7:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:22 am
Posts: 112
I got a red dot scope handed down to me, which I thought I'd try out on my DPMS, which shoots accurate with an existing spotter scope. Some weird observation that I can't wrap my head on - read below.

I have the gun leveled and secured in position on a table that's facing the target. I take a few shots centered on a bulls eye - it's 1 inch low and to the right. I adjust the windage and elevation to move the red dot to the point near the test shots(which are grouped tight). I recenter the gun, aim at the bulls eye again with the red dot aiming at the bulls eye, and its good with a few test shots.

I take the gun from the table, mount it on a tripod, and take a shot standing up at a new target which is also a bulls eye - red dot centered on it. I try a 5 shots and they are all 1 inches high. That doesn't make sense to me...If it was zeroed correctly as I thought I did, then I shouldn't be observing this issue.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 8:13 am 
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Location: Kingston, ON
BBKen wrote:
I got a red dot scope handed down to me, which I thought I'd try out on my DPMS, which shoots accurate with an existing spotter scope. Some weird observation that I can't wrap my head on - read below.

I have the gun leveled and secured in position on a table that's facing the target. I take a few shots centered on a bulls eye - it's 1 inch low and to the right. I adjust the windage and elevation to move the red dot to the point near the test shots(which are grouped tight). I recenter the gun, aim at the bulls eye again with the red dot aiming at the bulls eye, and its good with a few test shots.

I take the gun from the table, mount it on a tripod, and take a shot standing up at a new target which is also a bulls eye - red dot centered on it. I try a 5 shots and they are all 1 inches high. That doesn't make sense to me...If it was zeroed correctly as I thought I did, then I shouldn't be observing this issue.

Thoughts?

Put it back on the table and see where it shoots. If its off, then the scope is pooched.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 8:22 am 
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Location: GTA, ON
Are the two targets put side by side or up and down etc? Distance between the 2 bulleyes? And where you stood when you picked up the gun and shot (you won't stood on the table as you said you put the gun on the table to zero the red dot...)

Maybe a picture would be better describing...

I found this and asked similar question before and tried a lot of calculations but didn't get a good answer for it...

I shot with scope. Targrts are 3x 3 inches size placed side by side. I zeroed the gun at the bullseye on the target at the middle. POI grouped very well dead on the bullseye at where it zeroed.

Then, I turned the muzzle direction to aim the othet 2 targets but I kept my position without change... And then I found my POI changed on the other 2 targets, no more on the bullseye, but maybe up, maybe down, or left or right... Still groups very tight, but just shifted.....

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:42 am 
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Well it didn't cost me anything, so there's a possibility that it's a dud

I'll have to find out and try zeroing it again. Maybe it just doesn't hold zero and it loses itself just moving it around.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:46 am 
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Hi YepYep,

The distance of the targets are the same (against the same wall), but the target I used to zero in the scope is 12 inches lower than the other target.

Your experience is what I am experiencing perhaps....why would the POI shift if the scope is zeroed correctly? It should not matter if the target is right, left, or up / down...it should still be dead center I would think.

There must be an explanation for this. Maybe I"m missing something obvious.

Thanks

YepYep wrote:
Are the two targets put side by side or up and down etc? Distance between the 2 bulleyes? And where you stood when you picked up the gun and shot (you won't stood on the table as you said you put the gun on the table to zero the red dot...)

Maybe a picture would be better describing...

I found this and asked similar question before and tried a lot of calculations but didn't get a good answer for it...

I shot with scope. Targrts are 3x 3 inches size placed side by side. I zeroed the gun at the bullseye on the target at the middle. POI grouped very well dead on the bullseye at where it zeroed.

Then, I turned the muzzle direction to aim the othet 2 targets but I kept my position without change... And then I found my POI changed on the other 2 targets, no more on the bullseye, but maybe up, maybe down, or left or right... Still groups very tight, but just shifted.....

Sent from my S9 via Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:46 am 
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Location: GTA, ON
It's easy to find... Try what Duke said, back to where you zerodd it and shoot again... If it back on the bullseye... That's things like mine, if the zero lost, it just can't hold the zero...

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Future AA ProSport
FWB300S Universal
HW30s / 35e / 40+Extender / P3+Kit Scope
HW45 with customized grips from UK
Russian Izzy 46M
2240+14" barrel
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2210
Location: Greater Napanee, ON, Canada
Depends what you mean by "level and secured". Guns will shoot to different points when you vary the way they are held. Usually the difference is vertical. If one method completely eliminates muzzle flip and the other method allows for some movement, the poi could very well be different.

I always sight my guns in using the position (hold method) I will be using most. For me, that is sitting field target style.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 4:43 pm 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
IF there is nothing wrong with the sight, it's quite likely it is simply using a different hold that is giving you
2 different impacts - that is normal, as Mac has explained, above. It is due to different recoil impulses on
the gun.

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:22 am
Posts: 112
Thanks for the replies all.

What if the target is not at the same line of sight as the gun's barrel? For example, if the target was higher than my line of sight where I am aiming which results in the muzzle pointing up at an angle - would gravity cause the point of impact be lower than what I was aiming at?

Mac wrote:
Depends what you mean by "level and secured". Guns will shoot to different points when you vary the way they are held. Usually the difference is vertical. If one method completely eliminates muzzle flip and the other method allows for some movement, the poi could very well be different.

I always sight my guns in using the position (hold method) I will be using most. For me, that is sitting field target style.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 7:56 pm 
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Location: Kingston, ON
BBKen wrote:
Thanks for the replies all.

What if the target is not at the same line of sight as the gun's barrel? For example, if the target was higher than my line of sight where I am aiming which results in the muzzle pointing up at an angle - would gravity cause the point of impact be lower than what I was aiming at?


You need to compensate for angle, and I used to do it often, Alas haven't shot much outdoors lately and I forget what I did. But Google knows everything, and if you believe this google, then I'd expect your shots to be hitting high.
https://customturretsystems.com/shootin ... r-dead-on/

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 12:45 pm 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
"I take the gun from the table, mount it on a tripod, and take a shot standing up at a new target
which is also a bulls eye - red dot centered on it. I try a 5 shots and they are all 1 inches high."

regardless if the target is high, low, left or right, the poi will change with the changed holding of the gun.

Aiming higher or lower will also have a difference in the point of impact (shoots high with both), but at close ranges, has little effect.

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Daryl


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 10:28 pm 
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Location: Edmonton
Everybody up there :roll: is right. The issue is very most likely you are looking through the scope from a different position. Ensure you are getting the exact same cheek meld and shoulder position in both scenarios: your POI should be the same.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 8:32 am 
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Location: Caronport, Saskatchewan
The red dot probably has its parallax set for 25 yards or something like that and so if you shoot at a different distance, any difference in eye placement while shooting will result in the dot moving around on you.
Lasers can be your friend if you like to use different positions shooting. I found I could get really great accuracy even free hand with my Cp1-M pistol using a little $10 laser indoors. It can be fun too shooting from waist height or different positions, as you don't need to have your gun level with your eye.
Regards,
Wes

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