.177 vs .22
.177 vs .22
Which do you consider to be better all around? Which is more accurate?
Hey, don't hate. It releases negative energy, which is bad for everyone.
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under500fps
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.20 is the best compromise and cannot understand why it is not more popular.
Last edited by under500fps on Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
René
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airsmith282
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.22 cal rocks good impact mass damage thats whats required whuaaaaaa
.177 is good for speed but dont seem to hit as hard
for accuracy both are great choices but if its damage you want then 22 cal is the way to go in airguns
.20 cal is also very good just not as popular or readily available for some reason....
its all personal choice really to be honest
my first choice is 22 cal then 177 cal then well i guess we get 20 cal last at least for me ...
.177 is good for speed but dont seem to hit as hard
for accuracy both are great choices but if its damage you want then 22 cal is the way to go in airguns
.20 cal is also very good just not as popular or readily available for some reason....
its all personal choice really to be honest
my first choice is 22 cal then 177 cal then well i guess we get 20 cal last at least for me ...
It's all in opinion. I for one like my .22 break barrel for hunting because it has good hitting power. But I also use .177 sometimes and have great luck with it. you just need a .177 in higher velocity to get the same hitting power as a .22. I know a guy you only buys .177 airguns and he wont touch a .22 cal with a ten foot pole. And he has great luck with his .177 airguns. I have seen him make some pretty decent kills.
ONE SHOT, ONE KILL
Re: .177 vs .22
It's probably a better idea to choose the caliber based on your needs and desires.ABshooter wrote:Which do you consider to be better all around? Which is more accurate?
- for 10m olympic style target competition the .177 caliber is manditory
- for hunting many airgunners prefer the .22 for a wider wound channel, but some prefer .177 for "better" pentration. Velocity is a big factor too.
- for field target competition many airgunners prefer the .177 caliber for flatter trajectory and a slight advantage when shooting through the small target holes
- for plinking we like all calibers
- for smashing tin cans I prefer .22 caliber (my preference)
The .20 caliber has had lots of controversy. Some say it's a good compromise by giving more velocity and flatter trajectory than .22 and creating a wider wound channel than .177 caliber.
The opposition states that .20 does not shoot as fast or have as flat a trajectory as .177 and it doesn't create as wide a wound channel as .22 caliber. Good compromise or poor compromise?
The arguements will never end. Shoot whatever caliber works for your needs.
All calibers are capable of fine accuracy with quality pellets. Matching a good pellet to a quality barrel is what gives accuracy potential.
Todd
If you need to stay under 500fps, then I would think that .22 would be better for most applications. A gun that shoots 500fps with a heavier, .22 pellet has a lot more muzzle energy than one that shoots at 500fps with a lighter, .177 pellet.
At 500fps, for hunting or tin can smashing, you'll get more energy at the target with the .22. But if you just want to punch holes at closer ranges then the .177 would have a flatter trajectory. (Or would they have the same trajectory if they're both shot at 500fps?)
If you can get a PAL rated gun, then my oppinion is that .177 is better overall. This is because even for hunting, you should be able to get more than enough energy with either caliber if velocity is not limited, but the .177 will be easier to shoot accurately because of the flatter trajectory. (But if you're a lousy shot then maybe the .22 would be more forgiving for poor shot placement)
Most PAL guns that are available in both calibers will have the same energy for .177 as .22, but the velocities are different because of the pellets' weight difference. So that would mean that the .177 would be better because with the same energy, it will get there a lot quicker, and fly a lot flatter.
This is just my thoughts based on my (limited) understanding of ballistics.
If I'm wrong about something then please, I would like to know!
At 500fps, for hunting or tin can smashing, you'll get more energy at the target with the .22. But if you just want to punch holes at closer ranges then the .177 would have a flatter trajectory. (Or would they have the same trajectory if they're both shot at 500fps?)
If you can get a PAL rated gun, then my oppinion is that .177 is better overall. This is because even for hunting, you should be able to get more than enough energy with either caliber if velocity is not limited, but the .177 will be easier to shoot accurately because of the flatter trajectory. (But if you're a lousy shot then maybe the .22 would be more forgiving for poor shot placement)
Most PAL guns that are available in both calibers will have the same energy for .177 as .22, but the velocities are different because of the pellets' weight difference. So that would mean that the .177 would be better because with the same energy, it will get there a lot quicker, and fly a lot flatter.
This is just my thoughts based on my (limited) understanding of ballistics.
If I'm wrong about something then please, I would like to know!
Sorry Jester, I agree with everything you said except about PAL rated airguns in .177 and .22 having the same energy. I have a .177 Diana 48 and a .22 48 and I can safely say that the .22 makes more energy; .22 48 - 22.1fpe, .177 - 17fpe. I also have had the chance to spend a day with a .177 Diana 34 and it made 13.3fpe while my .22 34 makes 14.1, not a big difference, but it's there, and also I have somewhat detuned my .22 34 for smoothness. My Benjamin 397(.177) makes 10.8fpe while the 392(.22) makes around 14fpe. On a non PAL note, my .22 Diana 24 makes 7.72fpe while my .177 24 makes 6.45fpe, again not a big difference but it's there. I could give more examples, but I think the point has been made.
So it would seem to me that the higher the power level of a particular rifle the bigger the energy level difference between calibers will be. I have, and have used a few sets of "twin" caliber airguns and in every case the .22 version made more energy.
Mulby
So it would seem to me that the higher the power level of a particular rifle the bigger the energy level difference between calibers will be. I have, and have used a few sets of "twin" caliber airguns and in every case the .22 version made more energy.
Mulby
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ral_jiktar
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Thanks for those examples, I will have to rethink my theories nowMulby wrote:Sorry Jester, I agree with everything you said except about PAL rated airguns in .177 and .22 having the same energy. I have a .177 Diana 48 and a .22 48 and I can safely say that the .22 makes more energy; .22 48 - 22.1fpe, .177 - 17fpe....
I have been wondering about that for a while, I just assumed that if both guns have the same spring, then they would produce the same amount of energy. How/where (at what range) did you measure those figures? Do you think that at the muzzle the energy is the same?
High powered airguns in .177 still have more than enough energy to sufficiently and humanely dispatch any small game animal that I would hunt with an airgun. So I would still prefer the .177 for "high powered" guns because of the flatter trajectory, but still prefer the .22 for lower power guns for the reasons in my first post.
What calibre do you think would perform better in slightly windy conditions? I have generally thought that the .22 would buck the wind better because of it's higher mass. But I recently read (in Total Airguns by Pete Wadeson) a theory that says the .177 would resist the wind better because of it's low profile, and because it "gets there faster" so would be less prone to the wind.
What do you think?
That's for sure! I was out two weeks ago and my fingers went completely numb - I couldn't even feel the pellets after a while and kept dropping them. At that point I decided to pack it up.ral_jiktar wrote:wile .177 is still fun, I liek to be able to easally handle my bullets between shots, espacally in winter with gloves on.
This is (I think) one of the more interesting threads so far on this forum. It could be quite educational! I would like to read what everyone else thinks on this topic!
Hi Jester,
What Mulby speaks is fact. Typically a .22 caliber will produce more muzzle energy than a .177 caliber when attached to the same power source. This fact has been tested by many shooters on many airgun forums. The bigger bore CO2 and pumper rifles often see more of an increase than springers.
I have seen data on the HW40 and HW45 pistols in .177/.20/.22 caliber. The bigger calibers produce slightly more energy, even at the sub 6FPE level. At higher energy output the difference is greater.
A larger pellet diameter in a high powered airgun is preferred by some airgunners for hunting. A 16 grain .22 pellet mushrooms more than an 8 grain .177 caliber pellet. The wound channel is larger and produces more internal destruction.
Todd
What Mulby speaks is fact. Typically a .22 caliber will produce more muzzle energy than a .177 caliber when attached to the same power source. This fact has been tested by many shooters on many airgun forums. The bigger bore CO2 and pumper rifles often see more of an increase than springers.
I have seen data on the HW40 and HW45 pistols in .177/.20/.22 caliber. The bigger calibers produce slightly more energy, even at the sub 6FPE level. At higher energy output the difference is greater.
A larger pellet diameter in a high powered airgun is preferred by some airgunners for hunting. A 16 grain .22 pellet mushrooms more than an 8 grain .177 caliber pellet. The wound channel is larger and produces more internal destruction.
Todd
Hi Jester,
I do all of my velocity/energy testing with an F1 Master Chrony from about 3ft from the muzzle, so I guess my figures could be considered muzzle energy/velocity. I then use a calculator that takes muzzle energy/velocity, pellet BC, and range(yards), and calculates retained energy/velocity at the given range. Here's the link; http://www.airgunexpo.com/calc/calc_fpes.cfm?
I find it very interesting that my .22 48 with 22.1fpe/787fps at the muzzle with JSB Exact 5.52's retains just over 12fpe/581fps at 80yds. The same rifle in .177 with 17fpe/950 at the muzzle with JSB Exact 4.52's retains 6.25fpe/576fps at 80yds. So, from the muzzle the .22 creates more muzzle energy but less muzzle velocity than the .177, but at 80yds has almost twice the muzzle energy and a bit more velocity as the .177 at the same range! I have shot both of these rifles side by side, and I honestly don't notice the .22 shooting any less flatly in tragectory than the .177, it almost seems that the .22 shoots flatter because of its ability to retain energy/velocity. Strange, but true in my experience.
As far as wind resistance goes, I think it really comes down to how strong is the wind, what range are you shooting at, and at what power level. I think these variables are the most important, even over caliber choice since the longer the range you are shooting the more time the wind will have to play with the flight path. But caliber does play a roal in this to, since the .22 loses velocity/energy at a much lesser rate, depending on the range and power the .22 pellet may end up getting to the target faster, therefore possibly being less affected by the wind variable. So, IMHO the best caliber choice for windy conditions depends on; range, power, and the intensity of the wind.
I personally love both .177 and .22 calibers, and I hunt/pest with both with great results, wind or no wind. Everything I've stated is purely of my own experience and use of the wonderfull calculators on the AirgunExpo website. I especially like the "Energy Retention" calculator, and I bet my chrony likes it best to #-o. Our hobby is filled with fun, mechanics, and science. I'm hooked on all of them
!
Mulby
I do all of my velocity/energy testing with an F1 Master Chrony from about 3ft from the muzzle, so I guess my figures could be considered muzzle energy/velocity. I then use a calculator that takes muzzle energy/velocity, pellet BC, and range(yards), and calculates retained energy/velocity at the given range. Here's the link; http://www.airgunexpo.com/calc/calc_fpes.cfm?
I find it very interesting that my .22 48 with 22.1fpe/787fps at the muzzle with JSB Exact 5.52's retains just over 12fpe/581fps at 80yds. The same rifle in .177 with 17fpe/950 at the muzzle with JSB Exact 4.52's retains 6.25fpe/576fps at 80yds. So, from the muzzle the .22 creates more muzzle energy but less muzzle velocity than the .177, but at 80yds has almost twice the muzzle energy and a bit more velocity as the .177 at the same range! I have shot both of these rifles side by side, and I honestly don't notice the .22 shooting any less flatly in tragectory than the .177, it almost seems that the .22 shoots flatter because of its ability to retain energy/velocity. Strange, but true in my experience.
As far as wind resistance goes, I think it really comes down to how strong is the wind, what range are you shooting at, and at what power level. I think these variables are the most important, even over caliber choice since the longer the range you are shooting the more time the wind will have to play with the flight path. But caliber does play a roal in this to, since the .22 loses velocity/energy at a much lesser rate, depending on the range and power the .22 pellet may end up getting to the target faster, therefore possibly being less affected by the wind variable. So, IMHO the best caliber choice for windy conditions depends on; range, power, and the intensity of the wind.
I personally love both .177 and .22 calibers, and I hunt/pest with both with great results, wind or no wind. Everything I've stated is purely of my own experience and use of the wonderfull calculators on the AirgunExpo website. I especially like the "Energy Retention" calculator, and I bet my chrony likes it best to #-o. Our hobby is filled with fun, mechanics, and science. I'm hooked on all of them
!Mulby