2240 barrel length

[thudthumper]

no doubt that HPA is more consistent, but how on earth did you find that tank for only $25?

a CO2 tank is still generally smaller and lighter, which makes for a bit easier handling on bulk setups IMO.

[ustilago]

CO2 tanks with a diameter less than 2" and less than 2' in length never need hydro testing. All others require testing every 5 years.
That means 4 of my 6 tanks will never need hydro.

Most HPA tanks require hydro testing every 5 years. Some require it every 3 years. After 15 years of service (from the date of manufacture, doesn't matter if it sat in your closet for 15 years) all HPA tanks must be destroyed.

It is a federal offence to fill an out of hydro tank. Hydro testing costs $20-25. Generally, if your tank does not pass hydro it will be destroyed and you will not have to pay for the test.

New CO2 tanks cost between $20 and $50 ($70 if you are getting raped by the store). New HPA tanks can be had for as little as $100 or as much as $700 (Angel Air).
Your used HPA tank was $25 USD. That's what? About $30 CDN at this time (ballpark) + Shipping, how much was that? +$5 customs handling fee +7% GST assessed by the CCRA. I still think my $50 20oz tank was cheaper. If your tank was only $25 I would check the hydrodate if I were you.

If your regulator fails you should blow the low pressure burst disk. If the LP disk does not blow, you could potentially be dumping 3000 PSI into your gun. Is that safe?
As far as blowing a burst disk because you left your tank in the sun. That is not the fault of CO2, the tank or the burst disk. That's operator error. Did the person who filled the tank use a scale to measure how much CO2 they put in the tank? Or did they use the chill and fill 'till it won't take anymore method? That'd be gross negligence.

Fills might cost the same but I will get more shots out of a 20oz CO2 than out of a 68ci 4500 PSI HPA tank.

In the unlikely event that one of my pin valves leaks I can replace the valve for about $15. $25 if I upgrade to an on/off valve. But 99 times out of 100 I can fix the leak with a drop or two of ATF. Try that with an HPA tank (you are of course familiar with the concept of a diesel engine, correct?) Kaboom! How much does a replacement regulotor cost? About as much as a new tank with a regulator.

I have used HPA. I prefer CO2. HPA is not available everywhere. CO2 is much more widely available. CO2 is cheaper. And if you understand the dynamics of CO2 (and how to deal with it) it can be just as consistent as HPA.

And I still have not had anyone explain adequately how a gas at 3000 or 4500 PSI is safer than CO2 at a maximum of 1200 PSI.

[thudthumper]

And I still have not had anyone explain adequately how a gas at 3000 or 4500 PSI is safer than CO2 at a maximum of 1200 PSI

i've often heard that argument myself. while in a paintball shack at the local field i was once given the answer that "CO2 is by nature a much more volatile fluid and therefore much more dangerous than HPA."

yeah, it's more volatile...it's pressure does vary by about 100 psi for every 10* temp change...but i was an engineering student for 3 years. i know better. if we were to introduce both tanks into an environment where they would rupture, i would much rather try my luck standing near the CO2 tank at 1200psi than the HPA tank at several thousand psi.

i think the fack that HPA MUST be regulated says something. that's some serious pressure. like ustilago stated, if your reg fails you've got a whole lot of air wanting to go someplace...fast. even if the burst disk works properly, that high volume of compressed air will freeze anything it contacts. CO2 will do the same, but at a lower pressure it won't be as forceful.

i'm not knocking HPA. i considered buying an HPA setup for a long time. in the end, i just couldn't justify the cost for what little consistency i would gain over regulated CO2. i think HPA is a great powerplant...but i do not think it's safer than CO2. and i'm a bit uneasy about your $25 tank, randyhub. are you sure it's not time for it to be hydro-tested? if it's legit then you got a great deal.

[randyhub]

Good comments guys, but the 25 usd was a deal and I know that, just was pointing out deals can be had and yes I would be very stupid not to check the hydro date which is good until 02 0f 2009. It is a Pure Energy and works just fine holds air fine and was tested by our local paintball shop. What it gets down to is performance, so if you want to stay CO2 it's really your choice but the obvious movement to PCP target guns and paintball guns says it all. Two separate industries cannot be wrong so I guess one can choose to believe in what they want. My reference about the burst disk was just a personal experience and to say CO2 expansion must be respected and that no matter what it cannot offer the performance of HPA as demonstrated by all high end airguns. How many high end current airguns are being sold with Co2 as the propellant system? CO2 works well in controlled areas but not in varying tempertures hence my burst disk reference. So no disrespect here just stating the facts, as one cannot comment accurately unless one has the resources to do a true side by side comparison. I will keep my HPA for the primary power source and the tempermental CO2 power source for backup only, but at least I have the choice.

Randy

[thudthumper]

all valid points, randy. it is just a matter of preference.

i think there's a bit of hype to HPA though. it definitely has its advantages, but i think it's an overpriced medium. also, remember that tippmann has just created the world's first propane paintball gun, the C3 (real original name); so if your reasoning holds true then we'll soon be seeing propane powered pellet guns.

i'll honestly say i hope you're right, because that would be one helluva lot of fun!

[randyhub]

Yes we have the propane guns here, but geez if CO2 and HPA spook no way I am going to have a propane tank strapped to me! Also I think propane as a propellent in Canada and airguns might be viewed differently then air or non-volatile CO2. But like you said it is personal preference best to try both for oneself to see the pros and con, but months of cold weather here changes our Northern shooting habits.

[thudthumper]

yeah, another good point. i'm a LOT further south than y'all, so my temps are more CO2 friendly.

but could you imagine...those things get 50,000 shots on a single 16oz...and you can buy a 16oz of C3 at walmart for about $2. just imagine the efficiency we could have modding that setup.

course you'd have to be a lot more careful. one spark and you're no better off than the bushytails you're taking aim at. lol.

[randyhub]

Yeah shooting and lighting up a cig could equal a classic mushroom cloud and laughing squirrels??

[ABshooter]

Did you use a "dummy powerlet" in that? I'm trying to figure out how this whole bulking thing works, but I have not been very succesful...

[randyhub]

Yes from Cooper-T 25 USD and then a QD fitting replaced the tube endcap by the forearm.

[ustilago]

Indeed, there is a dummy 12g in the tube where a 12g normally resides. This dummy is side tapped and a shocktech vetical adapter for a spyder or minicocker is installed in the vertical position.

I drilled one hole in the bottom of the tube, lined up with the side tapped hole in the the dummy 12g, so that I could thread the vertical adapter into the 12g. I drilled a second hole through the tube under the barrel band and used a longer set screw to hold the 12g dummy firmly in place.

If I had known yesterday, I would have taken pics of the tube yesterday when I had it apart. But, since I have a spare dummy cart and vert adapter sitting here I took a picture of them for you.



Also featured in this picture are a Quick Disconnect and 10" of Braided Stainless hose (optional).

[thudthumper]

Yes from Cooper-T 25 USD

OR, if you're cheap like me you can just drill out the end of your valve with a size Q bit and tap 1/8"npt threads in it. just buy a regular ol' greasegun hose from the local hardware store, slap on some plumbers tape and voila!

...assuming you already have an ASA adapter and a size Q bit...

this is, of course, permanent.

i'll try and post a pic for those who are interested in how mine looks.