As of this moment I am changing direction in ball shooting. Your comment on "barrels before balls" has lead me to think about another way......
Remember those cheap single shot .22 long rifles of years back???
The barrels have a LONG gain twist for powdered cartridges... which is better for ball shooting. Not so good for pellets though.(who cares?).
The rifling lands & grooves would be superior for seating as would be the steel used in barrel construction.
The long rifle chamber and barrel could easily be adapted and fitted to airguns with a little machining effort which would include a special bolt and air passage to mate with existing air guns.
IF THE BORE DIAMETER IS THE SAME as conventional .22 airguns.
As of this moment I am going to watch for a cheap single shot .22 long. What do you think about all this????? Are we on to something here?.
-LarryS
TCooper.... A new frontier for .22 ball airguns?.
Hi Larry,
The grooves on rimfire rifles might be a bit deeper but that will help grab the ball.
Several years ago I had a Crosman Mark 1 that had a custom rimfire barrel mounted. The previous owner was a machinist and he did a great job of trimming the breech end down to fit. The barrel was 12" long and did not have a rimfire chamber. Accuracy was excellent and one hole groups at 10m were the norm. When chambering a pellet I had to give a bit of a push on the bolt knob to "engrave" the lead. Velocity with 14.3gr pellets was around 485fps with the heavier hammer spring. I should have got a "stupid award" for selling that pistol.
Apparently the older Cooeye rifles were known for tight barrels. I think that's what was on my Mk1. You can still find them cheap and sometimes with missing bolts or broken stocks. A damaged rifle might be a cheap was to go for a barrel. I'm not sure about the gain twist barrels.
The Canadian made Cooeye model 75 and 39 are worth finding. Barrels are quite long.
Todd
The grooves on rimfire rifles might be a bit deeper but that will help grab the ball.
Several years ago I had a Crosman Mark 1 that had a custom rimfire barrel mounted. The previous owner was a machinist and he did a great job of trimming the breech end down to fit. The barrel was 12" long and did not have a rimfire chamber. Accuracy was excellent and one hole groups at 10m were the norm. When chambering a pellet I had to give a bit of a push on the bolt knob to "engrave" the lead. Velocity with 14.3gr pellets was around 485fps with the heavier hammer spring. I should have got a "stupid award" for selling that pistol.
Apparently the older Cooeye rifles were known for tight barrels. I think that's what was on my Mk1. You can still find them cheap and sometimes with missing bolts or broken stocks. A damaged rifle might be a cheap was to go for a barrel. I'm not sure about the gain twist barrels.
The Canadian made Cooeye model 75 and 39 are worth finding. Barrels are quite long.
Todd
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jezX
- Supporting Member 2013
- Posts: 1689
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:47 pm
- Location: 123 gun street Nova Scotia
the idea you are talking about will not make much difference on the balls, 3 guns i tried had barrel made from old .22 rifles 2mossberg and a cooey.
popular belief is these barrels have harder metal and bigger bore . this is not true , i do find the balls shoot better in these barrel ,also pellet do but not much diff' to the crosman barrels. i got the 2 other typs of balls today , soon i'll test them.
i hate to say it but i don't think the rifle grooves will help on a ball .
popular belief is these barrels have harder metal and bigger bore . this is not true , i do find the balls shoot better in these barrel ,also pellet do but not much diff' to the crosman barrels. i got the 2 other typs of balls today , soon i'll test them.
i hate to say it but i don't think the rifle grooves will help on a ball .
I agree with you JezX.... the rifling may/or may not help the ball. But having a longer gain twist for a faster bulllet will cause less spin on the ball which should also speed the ball up in the barrel over a conventional airgun barrel.
Less spin & maybe faster with better seating is what I was referring to. We may never know what effect spin has on a ball other than to prevent uncontrolled "tumbling" which in itself does help the ball BTW.
So..... since actual rifle barrels have been thought of and used before...
....Does this mean I probably won't be Knighted by the Queen, nor receive accolades and royalties for original thought?.
-LarryS
Less spin & maybe faster with better seating is what I was referring to. We may never know what effect spin has on a ball other than to prevent uncontrolled "tumbling" which in itself does help the ball BTW.
So..... since actual rifle barrels have been thought of and used before...
....Does this mean I probably won't be Knighted by the Queen, nor receive accolades and royalties for original thought?.
-LarrySMac-1 used rifle barrels in the first production run of the Custom Mk1 Long Range pistols. Apparently, they shot great with the right pellets.
Quote from Mac-1 web site:
"...Bill DeHaven designed our first long-barrel conversions, using barrel liners that were machined from .22 Hornet or .223 firearm barrels."
Next step in Mac-1 progress:
"We moved away from the firearm barrels, which would only shoot oversize pellets like 5.6mm Wasps, and started building the guns with Lothar/Walther barrels." "...we used those until they ran dry."
Final step:
"I ended up making a deal with HW to build us our barrels exactly to our specifications already blue and ready to hand-crown and bolt up. The current .22 barrels on the LD are the best we have had to date..."
Hmmm... I wonder how a choked barrel would work with round balls? Maybe a nice HW or Diana example.
Todd
Quote from Mac-1 web site:
"...Bill DeHaven designed our first long-barrel conversions, using barrel liners that were machined from .22 Hornet or .223 firearm barrels."
Next step in Mac-1 progress:
"We moved away from the firearm barrels, which would only shoot oversize pellets like 5.6mm Wasps, and started building the guns with Lothar/Walther barrels." "...we used those until they ran dry."
Final step:
"I ended up making a deal with HW to build us our barrels exactly to our specifications already blue and ready to hand-crown and bolt up. The current .22 barrels on the LD are the best we have had to date..."
Hmmm... I wonder how a choked barrel would work with round balls? Maybe a nice HW or Diana example.
Todd