I understand that HW and Diana airguns are quite desirable in comparison to some of the other available non-PAL offerings from other manufacturers. But, getting a PAL is not rocket science, nor is regestering an airgun. An airgun is still an airgun, regestered or not, PAL or non, and is still illigal to shoot in an urban environment, so why not get the gun in the powerlevel it was meant to shoot at? The only difference will be that you will have to confront the challenge of learning the shooting characteristics of the more hold sensitive full power version, and you will have the thrill of long range airgun shooting.
For instance, why spend $600+ on a detuned Diana 48 in .22 that shoots under the legall limit when you can spend less than half of that on a model 24 in .22 that will shoot a light pellet over 500fps and do it just as accurately? Even better yet, a CZ631 for less than a third of the cost of a Diana 48 in .177 that is detuned?
I understand that the atraction is to be able to take a non-PAL gun and make it full power by swapping the spring for the full power one. But, is everyone going to regester that gun now that it is PAL rated? And if you did regester it, what if you want it to be non-PAL again someday? The same issues of degregestering an airgun that were mentioned would be just as much your problem as someone else that bought the full power version and wanted to detune it and deregester.
My bottom line is that there are a few great choices of non-PAL rated airguns out there that are very good shooters that cost considerably less. Why not get a PAL and enjoy both the full power versions of great HW and Diana airguns, and still have the luxury of a soft shooting CZ or Diana gun that can be purchased as is without regestration? I'll always enjoy PAL and non-PAL airguns, they both have there place in my collection.
Mulby
HW 97 VS. HW 77
Hi Mulby,
I can see the way you are thinking. If a person definitely wants to stay non-PAL then a Weihrauch HW30S or Diana 24 in either .177 or .22 would be a great choice (nickel or blued). Some shooters enjoy the larger framed air rifles but still don't want/need anymore than 500fps. The detuned models fit their needs.
Some airgunners are not powder gun shooters and don't want to start a personal firearms computer file with the Federal gov't (registration/PAL). This may be paranoia or not, but at least they have a great selection of non-PAL models to choose from. There's something for everyone. Detuned models bring many more options to non-PAL airgunners. Side-lever springers, under-lever springers, break-barrel springers, pumpers, SSP, PCP, CO2.
I can respect the choice of an airgunner to not want a firearms computer file with the gov't. Each to their own. I already have a file but I also enjoy non-PAL airguns for indoor shooting and short distance outdoor shooting (up to 40 yds). I get more use from a non-PAL airgun than I would from a PAL rifle.
Other airgunners may disagree with the choice to stay with non-PAL. Whatever works for them...
With a non-PAL detuned airgun you can choose to leave it under 500fps. If you have a PAL permit then you can choose to upgrade to PAL rated but, as you mentioned, this is a one time thing because then it gets registered. If you buy a full power PAL rated model there is no choice. Some shooters may want that choice and I can respect that.
At one time I had PAL rated and non-PAL rated airguns. I now only shoot non-PAL airguns... but that could change
Todd
I can see the way you are thinking. If a person definitely wants to stay non-PAL then a Weihrauch HW30S or Diana 24 in either .177 or .22 would be a great choice (nickel or blued). Some shooters enjoy the larger framed air rifles but still don't want/need anymore than 500fps. The detuned models fit their needs.
Some airgunners are not powder gun shooters and don't want to start a personal firearms computer file with the Federal gov't (registration/PAL). This may be paranoia or not, but at least they have a great selection of non-PAL models to choose from. There's something for everyone. Detuned models bring many more options to non-PAL airgunners. Side-lever springers, under-lever springers, break-barrel springers, pumpers, SSP, PCP, CO2.
I can respect the choice of an airgunner to not want a firearms computer file with the gov't. Each to their own. I already have a file but I also enjoy non-PAL airguns for indoor shooting and short distance outdoor shooting (up to 40 yds). I get more use from a non-PAL airgun than I would from a PAL rifle.
Other airgunners may disagree with the choice to stay with non-PAL. Whatever works for them...
With a non-PAL detuned airgun you can choose to leave it under 500fps. If you have a PAL permit then you can choose to upgrade to PAL rated but, as you mentioned, this is a one time thing because then it gets registered. If you buy a full power PAL rated model there is no choice. Some shooters may want that choice and I can respect that.
At one time I had PAL rated and non-PAL rated airguns. I now only shoot non-PAL airguns... but that could change
Todd
Hi Todd,
I respect everyones choices and reasons for not wanting a file with the Gov't. But if you are a law abiding citizen you should have no worries about regestering an airgun as a firearm. I personally enjoy the up to 40 or so yard performance of non-PAL airguns, aswell as the ease of indoor use with them. But, I also have become so accustomed to 80+ yard shooting that I could never give it up! And without a PAL and PAL rated airguns or firearms for that matter I don't see how that could be attained legally.
By the waters, I bought back my CZ631 from the guy I sold it to. He had purchased the rifle for his son and realized that the rifle was to big for the boy. I gladly refunded his money and got my rifle back unused. After the feelings of missing that sweet little rifle I decided not to sell any of my guns that I had planned on getting rid of. I worked to hard for them(and in some cases on them) and enjoy them all to much. This likely has alot to do with me not worrying about the slim chance of actually selling a PAL rated airgun!
Mulby
I respect everyones choices and reasons for not wanting a file with the Gov't. But if you are a law abiding citizen you should have no worries about regestering an airgun as a firearm. I personally enjoy the up to 40 or so yard performance of non-PAL airguns, aswell as the ease of indoor use with them. But, I also have become so accustomed to 80+ yard shooting that I could never give it up! And without a PAL and PAL rated airguns or firearms for that matter I don't see how that could be attained legally.
By the waters, I bought back my CZ631 from the guy I sold it to. He had purchased the rifle for his son and realized that the rifle was to big for the boy. I gladly refunded his money and got my rifle back unused. After the feelings of missing that sweet little rifle I decided not to sell any of my guns that I had planned on getting rid of. I worked to hard for them(and in some cases on them) and enjoy them all to much. This likely has alot to do with me not worrying about the slim chance of actually selling a PAL rated airgun!
Mulby
Hi Mulby,
Do we really know who has access to our firearms files? I'm not paranoid but some shooters claim the files are not as secure as we are lead to believe. Stories circulate. Oh well...
Yep, making 80 yard shots with an airgun definitely requires a PAL I think some airgunners underestimate the accuracy of the high velocity models. It's very possible to make hits at 100 yards if you have an accurate magnum air rifle. I made many hits at 70 yards with a Diana 36 that was only doing 830fps with CPLs. I can see your enjoyment with long distance plinking with air rifles. It's a great way to spend a summer afternoon.
Todd
Do we really know who has access to our firearms files? I'm not paranoid but some shooters claim the files are not as secure as we are lead to believe. Stories circulate. Oh well...
Yep, making 80 yard shots with an airgun definitely requires a PAL
I think some airgunners underestimate the accuracy of the high velocity models. It's very possible to make hits at 100 yards if you have an accurate magnum air rifle. I made many hits at 70 yards with a Diana 36 that was only doing 830fps with CPLs. I can see your enjoyment with long distance plinking with air rifles. It's a great way to spend a summer afternoon. Todd
-
canshooter
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:22 pm
- Location: Mississauga On. Ca.
- Contact:
In my opinion there are plenty of rifles engineered to be under 500fps. If you want non PAL then buy non PAL. By the same token I wouldnt buy a Porche and request a VW beetle engine factory installed!
Airgunning is my hobby... and it is cheaper than
maintaining an outside relationship with another woman.
-------------------------------------------------------
maintaining an outside relationship with another woman.
-------------------------------------------------------
I respect your opinion but it appears that you are discouraging the choice or availability of detuned airguns. I'm sure glad the manufacturers don't have that mind set. If they did then we wouldn't have the Cr1377 in Canada. Rifles such as the Cr2289, Cr1077, Daisy 853, Crosman Quest 500, Winchester 500X, Beeman 1040, Crosman Legacy, etc... they would all be PAL rated and not likely sold in the quantity we see. These rifles are detuned for the Canadian market as non-PAL. Many shooters enjoy them in the lower velocity form.canshooter wrote:In my opinion there are plenty of rifles engineered to be under 500fps. If you want non PAL then buy non PAL. By the same token I wouldnt buy a Porche and request a VW beetle engine factory installed!
Some airgunners admire the workmanship of the full size Weihrauch and Diana air rifles but have no need for magnum velocities. Rifles such as the HW50S, HW97, HW95, Diana 36, etc... all have a sweet feel to some shooters. These same shooters may be more than happy with 500fps from a .177 or .22 pellet. These same shooters may not desire the smaller HW30S or D24 rifles. A detuned air rifle is fine for tin cans out to 40 yards or shooting in a basement or a 20 yard indoor range. High velocity is not needed by all shooters. Even the .177 caliber HW30S is detuned for Canada and I'm glad we have that choice.
Not all airgunners are hunters. Not all airgunners desire to have a PAL and register their airguns. I'm glad they have a choice to enjoy our wonderful sport without the red tape and added expense. Paper punching and tin can shooting can be enjoyed without paperwork.
I support the availability of detuned airguns in Canada.
This is only my 2 cents and many shooters may disagree.
Todd
-
canshooter
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:22 pm
- Location: Mississauga On. Ca.
- Contact:
It would be really nice if folks making this decision had the opportunity to try the full power versions and the downtuned versions.
In a perfect world someone with access to a suitable venue, private farm etc could host an invitational event for the members of the forum in a given location. I would be most willing to bring my guns to such an event to allow anyone interested a chance to fire them, under supervision of course. In return I would love the chance to fire some guns belonging to other members that I have heard about but not seen.
I hope someone with available land takes the hint!
Lets keep our fingers crossed that they cancel the gun registry, or at least give air rifles a free pass.
In a perfect world someone with access to a suitable venue, private farm etc could host an invitational event for the members of the forum in a given location. I would be most willing to bring my guns to such an event to allow anyone interested a chance to fire them, under supervision of course. In return I would love the chance to fire some guns belonging to other members that I have heard about but not seen.
I hope someone with available land takes the hint!
Lets keep our fingers crossed that they cancel the gun registry, or at least give air rifles a free pass.
Airgunning is my hobby... and it is cheaper than
maintaining an outside relationship with another woman.
-------------------------------------------------------
maintaining an outside relationship with another woman.
-------------------------------------------------------
In a thread from some time ago I said that if for some reason I couldn't have a pal or pal rated airguns, I would still have all the same guns I have today. I would have gotten them as de-tuned models. I just thank my lucky stars that I DO have a pal and I CAN have full power airguns or powder burners. I have airguns ranging from 3fpe all the way up to 23fpe and I enjoy them all.
Mulby
Mulby
Hmmmm... Canadian AirgunStock 2006.canshooter wrote:It would be really nice if folks making this decision had the opportunity to try the full power versions and the downtuned versions.
In a perfect world someone with access to a suitable venue, private farm etc could host an invitational event for the members of the forum in a given location. I would be most willing to bring my guns to such an event to allow anyone interested a chance to fire them, under supervision of course. In return I would love the chance to fire some guns belonging to other members that I have heard about but not seen.
I hope someone with available land takes the hint!
Lets keep our fingers crossed that they cancel the gun registry, or at least give air rifles a free pass.
Todd
-
canshooter
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:22 pm
- Location: Mississauga On. Ca.
- Contact:
Okay so what am I missing ...What is airgunstock 2006...or are you putting a name froward for a proposed event?...Also sorry for the way that we kinda hijacked this guys thread.
Airgunning is my hobby... and it is cheaper than
maintaining an outside relationship with another woman.
-------------------------------------------------------
maintaining an outside relationship with another woman.
-------------------------------------------------------
Yah, it's great to have the choice of PAL or non-PAL airguns. It's great that we have many models available in both classifications. I think we have several members here who are mainly basement shooters who enjoy quality detuned airguns. Other members have the open space and desire to reach out to longer distances (PAL airguns). They can both shoot the same high quality airguns, tuned to their velocity needs. Wonderful!Mulby wrote:In a thread from some time ago I said that if for some reason I couldn't have a pal or pal rated airguns, I would still have all the same guns I have today. I would have gotten them as de-tuned models. I just thank my lucky stars that I DO have a pal and I CAN have full power airguns or powder burners. I have airguns ranging from 3fpe all the way up to 23fpe and I enjoy them all.
Mulby
Ain't it great to be livin' in good ole Canada!
LOL Todd