legality of airgun silencers

[Bobby Ironsights]

any form any form of siliencer or sound suppressure that makes the gun produce less noise to no noise is illeagle

How come airsoft gun silencers are being sold legally? Airsoft guns that I've seen look exactly like really ones, like this P99 shown here:


It even comes with a silencer. How come these aren't banned for import and sale in Canada?

Because they AREN'T silencers. All they do is look like a silencer. They do nothing for sound.

I disagree entirely;

That gun shown is clearly in violation of the replica gun laws, regardless of whether it has a silencer are not.

HOWEVER;The reason you can still buy them in Canada, is because the law is not being actively enforced.

This is similar to many other laws which have been legislated, but are not being enforced. Like the laws banning livestock animals in major city centers that aren't being enforced because people love to buy their pot-bellied pigs and baby bunny rabbits at Petsmart.

The "silencer" is not illegal because it is only a black tube on a toy. It is NOT a device intended to muffle the report of a firearm

airsoft guns are not "firearms" as defined by law. Ergo the firearm laws don't apply.

[airsmith282]

Bobby Ironsights



i dont know who you but when i talked to marstar canada and to the cheif of fire arms my self and many other companys on the subject they seem to know their litter rather well. this also includes companys that manufactor siliencers and suppressors that i hav spoken with my self ..and the gun in question is not in any vilolation at all of canadian laws or replica gun laws. iam also a dealer and have done alot of research on this subejct so iam pretty sure i know what iam talking about as well..
and like i said before if you want the real truthfull answers you talk to the goverment people that control this stuff..

also talk to thoes that manufactor the stuff as well they will tell you what you need to know,,,

[nighthawk39]

That gun shown is clearly in violation of the replica gun laws, regardless of whether it has a silencer are not.

You know, you right! Canadian Tire DOES sell illegal replicas! How silly of me.

[Bobby Ironsights]

That gun shown is clearly in violation of the replica gun laws, regardless of whether it has a silencer are not.

You know, you right! Canadian Tire DOES sell illegal replicas! How silly of me.

It's happened before, between 2000 and 2003 when the "laser" hi-velocity pellets came out, many formerly legal pellet pistols would test over the (old rating system) 500 fps.

So technically, alot of pellet pistols became prohibited Handguns

(***and as nighthawk will point out in the next post, many more simply became restricted handguns, the difference being barell length, most pellet pistols being either .177 or .22 caliber***)

A writer was making fun of the fact that because of the stupid law/loophole more than 140 stores including Canadian Tire, Wal-Mart....etc...etc... were technically selling "Handguns" and getting away with it for more than 3 years.

The article was a couple years old and wasn't important to my research on sound suppressor legality so I didn't save it....

I only really remember it because one of the guns on the list (the crosman 357) was considered a handgun AT THAT TIME...

I am not saying that these airsoft guns SHOULD be illegal, I am however saying that they ARE, in fact illegal according to how the law reads.....

Maybe I should quote the Government on this..... . Replica firearms, except for replicas of antique firearms, are classified as prohibited devices.
In particular, some air guns that are commonly called air soft guns may fall into this category. These are devices that have a low muzzle velocity and muzzle energy, and that usually discharge projectiles made out of a substance such as plastic or wax rather than metal or lead.

Although replica firearms are prohibited, you may keep any that you owned on December 1, 1998. You do not need a licence to possess them, and they do not need to be registered. However, as an individual, you cannot import or acquire a replica firearm. If you take a replica firearm out of Canada, you will not be able to bring it back in.


Stupid....yes.....but ........that's the way it seems to be.....


Here is the link to the full meal deal... http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/info_for-rens ... guns_e.asp[/url]

[nighthawk39]

It's happened before, between 2000 and 2003 when the "laser" hi-velocity pellets came out, many formerly legal pellet pistols would test over the (old rating system) 500 fps.

So technically, alot of pellet pistols became prohibited Handguns

Seems to me like you don't quite know your firearm laws as well as you think you do. Just because a pellet handgun fires over 500 fps (and it's energy is high enough as well) does not make it a "prohibited handgun". It then becomes a restricted handgun, for which you would need a restricted PAL to possess.

For it to be "prohibited" as you say, it would have to a) fire .25 or .32 calibre or b) have a barrel length of LESS THAN 104mm. Neither of which have anything what-so-ever to do with velocity.

No need for you to quote the firearms act, I am familiar with it as many other members here are as well.

[Bobby Ironsights]

It's happened before, between 2000 and 2003 when the "laser" hi-velocity pellets came out, many formerly legal pellet pistols would test over the (old rating system) 500 fps.

So technically, alot of pellet pistols became prohibited Handguns

Seems to me like you don't quite know your firearm laws as well as you think you do. Just because a pellet handgun fires over 500 fps (and it's energy is high enough as well) does not make it a "prohibited handgun". It then becomes a restricted handgun, for which you would need a restricted PAL to possess.

For it to be "prohibited" as you say, it would have to a) fire .25 or .32 calibre or b) have a barrel length of LESS THAN 104mm. Neither of which have anything what-so-ever to do with velocity.

No need for you to quote the firearms act, I am familiar with it as many other members here are as well.

The crosman 357 is sold with a 4-inch barrel

Four inches is 101.6 mm's which is shorter than 104mm

SO;

when, UNDER THE OLD RULES between 2000 and 2003, the crosman 357 was considered a handgun(because of the old velocity rule), it was considered prohibited, not restricted.

My statement stands as correct, but I'm disturbed by your desire to argue a sidepoint.

As a new member I don't want to antagonize existing members, just expressing my opinions, sharing the facts I've gleaned and discussing issues.

There's no need to nitpick on me? Is there nighthawk? I hope I haven't offended you.


I'm actually really glad to discuss this with you and others, as I have been doing alot of reading on this particular issue with no-one else to talk to about it that gives a damn.

I appreciate this opportunity for reciprocal discussion/debate.

And I've learned a great deal from other forum members.

I tell you what, I'll append my previous post and give credit for the correction where it belongs!

[airsmith282]

hey look bill c-68 died long ago
alot of the informaton on the net is out dated and no longer in effect and this includes the 357 with 4 inch barrel they just have been to lazy to take the stuff off the net, for current information call the cheif of firearms and get the right answers,

hell if the 357 is prohibited then so is the ppk and the cp sport the cp99 and cp88 man to many to list..

i had this same issue once my self .iam not picking on you so i made some phone calls to my goverment and got all the up to date information i also talked to john at D&L and he told me alot of interesting stuff as well, i keep in constante contact as well for all the most recent chages as iam a dealer and now our company is selling international china the UK and so on so i have some home work to do my self this week and lots of calls to make...

so instead of argueing or asuming youre right make a phone call and get the facts from the hourses mouth

[Bobby Ironsights]

hey look bill c-68 died long ago

hell if the 357 is prohibited then so is the ppk and the cp sport the cp99 and cp88 man to many to list..

What are you talking about? I was talking about the past! Hence the reference to "between 2000 and 2003"

Are you drunk and naked sitting at the keyboard?

[Eric]

here is a general rule that was told to me by a very wise older fellow "talk to the person who's carpet is the thickest" if you live by this you will save ALOT of arguments for topics more deserving

[TCooper]

The CFC has a good write-up on airguns.
http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/info_for-rens ... guns_e.asp

I remember when the plastic Lazerhawk pellets came out. The RCMP started testing many of the non-PAL rated airguns to determine if the ratings should change. The testing caused confusion with the RCMP and they couldn't even give a straight answer as to whether certain airguns should be registered or not. It was a grey area for a period of time and I couldn't get definite answers.

The manufacturer's rated velocity is what most consider to be the authority on velocity. The various European and Chinese airguns are all imported with reference to the manufacturer's velocity rating. The gov't lets them into Canada to be sold as non-PAL if the owner's manual says so. Most of us know the real facts about these ratings.

I'm surprised the felt cleaning pellet wasn't used by the RCMP to test velocity. Our velocity laws have been a joke since inception. Finally we have an energy rating to clarify the formula. It still doesn't make sense that we can own a non-PAL air pistol that shoots 180gr lead balls at 490fps but a .177 HW45 pistol is restricted (600fps rating).

I'm still not so certain about the "silencer topic" with airguns. Section 84(3) of the CCC states what sections deem certain airguns to not be classed as a firearm. Section 84(1) defines a silencer as a prohibited device. Section 84(3) does not deem any airguns to be exempt from firearm status in section 84. I wonder if a non-PAL airgun would be classed as a firearm in section 84. This would make the silencer illegal.

Hey Bobby... the Provincial Probation & Parole office still has a better view of the TBay harbour than Lee Baig. Have a look from the front of the gov't office on Waters Street (upper floor).

Todd

[Bobby Ironsights]

Hey Bobby... the Provincial Probation & Parole office still has a better view of the TBay harbour than Lee Baig. Have a look from the front of the gov't office on Waters Street (upper floor).

Todd

Probation and Parole office Huh?

You know, I've never been!

( AND I HOPE TO GOD I NEVER WILL!!! )

[Eric]

hey look bill c-68 died long ago

hell if the 357 is prohibited then so is the ppk and the cp sport the cp99 and cp88 man to many to list..

What are you talking about? I was talking about the past! Hence the reference to "between 2000 and 2003"

Are you drunk and naked sitting at the keyboard?

i am

[scruffie]

ME too. Who'd a thunk.

[Eric]

lol i thunk once then i got drunk me no thunk no more

[ustilago]

You caught me on an off night. I am both sober and fully clothed for a change. . .