Air rifle REFUSED by Canada Customs!!!

[Mtl_Biker]

On my recommendation a friend of mine ordered a Weihrauch HW97K from Krale in the Netherlands. I have bought three different guns from them (including a match pistol) plus one from Mundilar in Portugual, and all have come in without problems of any kind.

The only issue for Krale shipping to Canada, is that UPS in Canada will NOT ACCEPT any guns for shipment, including air guns. (No such issue with UPS in the United States.) So because of this, Krale has to ship by postal services and further complicating the shipping is the Netherlands Post has a length limit for any packages and a fully assembled rifle in original packaging is too long. Krale (and I) have gotten around this in the past by my asking and Krale kindly doing it, was to disassemble the action from the stock, so that that it could be repackaged to be shorter, and thus meeting the length limit. Of course this also means the original packaging is lost. Krale has done it for me in the past, and while they don't normally do this for clients (it costs them money/time to do this) and they kindly agreed to do this for my friend. (By the way, Portugual Post has no such size limit.)

My friend sent them a copy of his PAL with the request that a copy be placed INSIDE the package as well as OUTSIDE. Krale did this, as they have done for me several times.

Anyway, we've been tracking the shipment and it's now OVER THREE WEEKS and it still has not reached Canada Post. (Once it reaches Canada Post the tracking is updated with detailed progress... arrived, sent for further processing, processed, out for delivery, etc.) We've been in touch with Krale about this and have just heard back from them that the package was REFUSED BY CANADA CUSTOMS and returned to Krale.

Very very strange! Not even an out for further processing. Just refused and returned. Without any explanation other than refused by Canada Customs.

Looks like with this development plus the UN Firearms Marking Act taking place in June, our options for any sort of airgun are going to get very very limited. SIGH

[ejackyou]

In my past experience, Customs will not return the item to sender, they impound it for a certain time , then destroy it!

[peterdulux]

nt

[robertr]

You should contact customs ans see why it was refused.

[Mtl_Biker]

In my past experience, Customs will not return the item to sender, they impound it for a certain time , then destroy it!

That may be so. But after over 3 weeks of it not being reported by Canada Post as "Arrived in Canada" (which they normally do BEFORE it gets "sent for further processing") and it having just been returned to Krale in the Netherlands, what do you think might have happened?

It's been my experience and belief that the tracking will show when it arrives in the country and in this case it never did. I thought the "sent for further processing" is Customs related, and that happens even with other (not gun) products, arriving from overseas and the USA. In this case nothing appeared other than the notification that it has been shipped from the originating country.

If Customs rejects an item, do you know if they ALWAYS impound and then destroy it? If so, then it would seem this never made it to Canada Customs. ????

[Mtl_Biker]

You should contact customs ans see why it was refused.

First we're asking Krale if they have any further information other than simply "rejected". And with the time difference and it being Friday, we won't have an answer until sometime next week.

In any case, it's now a moot point because Krale has announced that they will no longer supply guns to Canadian customers because of the problems with the postal service and inability to ship via UPS.

I guess a remaining possibility would be for Krale to ship to the USA and for us to either pick it up there or have it forwarded, but that would add quite a bit of expense to it I believe. Does anyone know if it would be charged US duty on arrival in the States? And when we bring it into Canada there would CERTAINLY be duty charged. Might be worth trying though.

[sillymike]

If it lands in the US and they think there are duties applicable, they will need to be paid before they release the package.
Same thing when you try to bring it in to Canada. Canada custom couldn't careless that you already paid duty in the US for it.

Did you include a:
- International Import Certificate
- Letter/email form the RCMP saying this air rifle is legal in Canada

It is not officially required, but it always facilitate any "firearms related" items coming in the country... and even, things can take a funny twist. But that's another story.

-

It doesn't make sense that Canada Post would return the item. If Canada Custom didn't like it, they would have sent you a letter to that effect. Informing you that you had 30 days to appeals. In most cases you can forfeit the package, which will be destroyed. Have it shipped out of the country (don't know the $ involved).

[Mtl_Biker]

If it lands in the US and they think there are duties applicable, they will need to be paid before they release the package.
Same thing when you try to bring it in to Canada. Canada custom couldn't careless that you already paid duty in the US for it.

Did you include a:
- International Import Certificate
- Letter/email form the RCMP saying this air rifle is legal in Canada

It is not officially required, but it always facilitate any "firearms related" items coming in the country... and even, things can take a funny twist. But that's another story.

-

It doesn't make sense that Canada Post would return the item. If Canada Custom didn't like it, they would have sent you a letter to that effect. Informing you that you had 30 days to appeals. In most cases you can forfeit the package, which will be destroyed. Have it shipped out of the country (don't know the $ involved).

I think you're correct about how it works with Canada Post and Canada Customs. There is something strange here and to me it looks like it never even arrived in Canada and that somewhere along the line it got returned to Krale.

An International Import Certificate is not needed for this, according to the gov't people I spoke with in the last year concerning what I'd need to bring in the air guns that I wanted. Neither is a letter/email from the RCMP (and how would you possibly go about getting that anyway?). But the HW97 *IS* listed in the RCMP FRT database as a permitted rifle, requiring only a PAL (not even an RPAL) to have. And a copy of the PAL was included inside and outside the package according to Krale. But also for us mere mortals, it's just about impossible to get the correct FRT information or classification, but all law enforcement and Customs people have easy access to it.

Bottom line is that I really believe something happened outside of Canada which caused the rifle to be returned to Krale.

(Also, as I said, this was a friend of mine who ordered the rifle based on my recommendation and experience, but I've imported three airguns successfully from Krale and one from Mundilar in Portugual. But that doesn't mean things haven't changed somehow and that I wouldn't be successful in the future.)

[sillymike]

While a Import certificate/ RCMP letter is not legally needed... it ease things.

On Canada Post website, just noticed this.

https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manu ... mail-e.asp

3.3

Firearms (including imitation and replica firearms)

International destinations:

Under no circumstances can Firearms be mailed as defined by the Firearms Act: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... lText.html (Section 16 - non-contract) or http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... lText.html (Section 15 - contract).

I would have assumed it was for "firearms" going out, but maybe they also apply it for international shipment coming in.

[Watertown]

If all else fails you can order it from a Canadian dealer.
https://www.dlairgun.com/Air-Rifles/Wei ... _97_K.html

[johNTO]

If all else fails you can order it from a Canadian dealer.
https://www.dlairgun.com/Air-Rifles/Wei ... _97_K.html

OP....I'm curious why you would go through the process of purchasing from an overseas Dealer when the same AG is available in Canada.

[leadslinger]

If all else fails you can order it from a Canadian dealer.
https://www.dlairgun.com/Air-Rifles/Wei ... _97_K.html

OP....I'm curious why you would go through the process of purchasing from an overseas Dealer when the same AG is available in Canada.

Cheaper probably.

[ITGUY]

If all else fails you can order it from a Canadian dealer.
https://www.dlairgun.com/Air-Rifles/Wei ... _97_K.html

OP....I'm curious why you would go through the process of purchasing from an overseas Dealer when the same AG is available in Canada.

Cheaper probably.

Yeah, IF you receive it

I will mention it once again, the way to beat Canada Customs is to have the shipper declare REPAIR on the customs paperwork. It especially helps if only the action is shipped for example.

Getting a large company to do this for you is very difficult as they dont want to be bothered, but for example I had some very expensive rims drop shipped from California to a powder coating house in the same state. They stripped them and powder coated them, then shipped to me. Insurance value was 5 grand, but declared REPAIR value was 400 dollars.

I've also received 2 firearms from the U.S. in the past. Both were shipped in pieces, both were marked as repair, both came through no problem.

I am lucky in that I dont have to bother with that nonsense anymore as we have a U.S. office now and things can be worked out differently.....

You still have to be smart about things though..no 30 round mags, no silencers, etc etc etc.

[sillymike]

ITGUY, maybe I've got my tinfoil-hat a little too tight this morning... but openly admitting to a fraudulent declaration on a public forum... Is a good way to get you, your company and the people you deal with in trouble.

It is an offence to

- Issue a false statements when asked to give statements pursuant to the Customs Act
- Smuggle goods into Canada
- Destroy records to avoid compliance with the Customs Act
- Evade any payments of duties that are owed
- Make false records to avoid compliance with the Customs Act



Personally, one of my employee uses our US offices to bypass/evade regulations.
- It would be considered a breach of trust and ethics.
- That employee would face disciplinary action, and would probably be dismissed.

[Mtl_Biker]

If all else fails you can order it from a Canadian dealer.
https://www.dlairgun.com/Air-Rifles/Wei ... _97_K.html

OP....I'm curious why you would go through the process of purchasing from an overseas Dealer when the same AG is available in Canada.

First of all, this is/was a friend of mine... not me. Second, D&L is a terrific dealer (I've bought lots from them) but in this case the fellow in question simply wanted to save about $200 on the purchase, which if things go well is entirely possible.

And when *I* have bought overseas, it was really in order to get a gun that was not available (out of stock) here in Canada *AND* to save some money by doing so. For example, when I bought my Steyr EVO-10 Compact match pistol, it was so new that no dealer in Canada (or the US) had one yet. I got it from Krale with no problems at all and saved quite a bit of money too. But when I sold that one and bought a full-length of the same model, I bought from a Canadian source (Cibles) because I really value the service/support available from local Canadian dealers. And when I bought my HW97KT, it was from SSSO (who most unfortunately are closing up shop, leaving only one Weihrauch source in Canada). My two HW50S (one .177 and one .22 and one had the gorgeous nickel barrel) came from Europe because neither Canadian source had any at the time.

So anyone buying needs to weigh availability, service/support and cost to make the decision most appropriate for the situation.